Bloodlines to watch out for (aggression/health) and questions about various lines.

[JonP]

I am trying to learn more about various lines of BB’s and am looking for a little feedback from both owners and breeders if possible. I am looking for lines that tend to (or are commonly known) to produce aggressive dogs. Dog aggression as well as excessive human aggression is a concern of mine and I would like to learn more about the lines that produce these particular dogs.

As for now, here is what I have heard about aggressive lines…

 

Waaksaam Rocky and Waaksaam Aragon tend to produce aggressive dogs.

 

Leo Fluweel and Dopper Boela also tend to produce aggressive dogs.

 

I can understand that aggression can sometimes be seen in dogs that exhibit intense suspicion, but sometimes I think this can be confused with or related to weak/poor nerves.

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Aside from lines that produce aggressive dogs, I would also like to learn more about lines (or combinations) that tend to produce dogs with health issues. Considering hips and elbows along with anything else relevant.

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I would love it if some of you could help me understand some of the general information about a few lines. What makes these lines or breeders standout? What are the special characteristics associated with these lines/breeders?

 

Here are a few I was wondering about specifically,

 

Geelbos line…I have learned that they hardly did any out-crossing. They are somewhat smaller in build than the Mizpah’s, and that they are more or less the old-fashioned type of BB. Can anyone else provide more info on this line?

 

The Mizpah line; I have learned that they are also more old-fashioned BB’s and that they tend to have more hip and elbow issues than other lines. Can anyone else provide more info on this line?

 

 

The Middelpos line. I don’t know anything about these dogs but would love it if someone could share some of their knowledge of these dogs.

 

Thank you for taking the time to look over my posting, and thanks in advance to all that are able to shed some insight. I am trying to learn as much as possible about various lines.

[Midhad]

Good luck with this and I hope you get any replies to your post since it would mean calling out certain breeders.

[Marcella Burgess]

Hello there,

I would have to highly disagree with your first statement of Waaksom Rocky and Waaksom Aragon being know to produce dog aggressive dogs; I have met numerous direct offspring, grand children, great grandchildren, great great grandchildren as well as many other numerous descendants out of BOTH Rocky and Aragon... let me just say that Aragon was probably the MOST balanced dog and threw dogs with low levels of suspicion consistently... Rocky the same; however.. the drive that Aragon had definitely got passed down through the generations.. we ourselves have used Waaksom Aragon within our own breeding program via his son's and grandson's and will continue to do so again!  Personally speaking,  there is ALOT of heat and confident reactivity to come out of Afrika Bianca... she throws some varying levels of this but over the last 10 years we have seen numbers of dog's with varying degree's of heat and confident reactivity AND high levels of suspicion naturally.. if paired correctly they go on to produce some very correct boerboels with high levels of intelligence, athleticsm, drive, and a good working mind set.

We have had quite a few different Dopper dogs within our program over the years and unfortunately the common thread that we were seeing is a lack of handler bonding or care;  dogs that really did not need human companionship,  some serious fear aggression issues, some seriously heightened levels of suspicion and ALL defense work. 

Give me a shout sometime.. we can talk further

Marcella Burgess

Proudfoot Kennels

[Marcella Burgess]

just to add to Midhad's statement... I don't think that this is ' calling out " certain breeders.. and if so.. OFW... this is more pinpointing certain dogs ( verifiably ) to try to navigate away from for certain traits.

[JonP]

Thanks for your reply Marcella! Same to you Midhad!

I agree with your comment Marcella, I really did not think that this question would be "calling out" any particular breeders. I more or less want to get feedback on lines/dogs to avoid. I am not looking for breeders I should avoid, but if someone would like to post some thoughts about a particular breeder...then more power to you.

I really hope more will join in on this discussion. Lots of views but no one willing to share. This topic will benefit many owners. Now and further down the road. I feel that it is OK to point out flaws and abnormalities with particular dogs or lines without calling into question any breeder. No one wants an overly aggressive dog. I know I don't.

[Lisa Tiro]

Jon, as you know I had a dog aggressive and human aggressive BB. Bella imo had weak nerves as demonstrated by her many fears that she had such as cardboard boxes and folding chairs. If you moved furniture around she wouldn't go in the room. She was very loving and affectionate with her people and her pets but when she turned a year old she started randomly attacking people that she didn't know and dogs that she didn't know. She even bit my son (transferred aggression) and was quarantined by the city I live in. She was bred out of Mount Olympus Boerboels in Texas. The dam was Mt. Olympus Rhea and the sire was Afrika Mars. In addition to the bad temperment, she suffered many health issues as well. The one that killed her was Auto Immune Hemalytic Anemia. She was only 2 1/2 when she succumbed to this dreadful disease.

~Lisa

[Fuller Boerboels]

I had a very bad experience with a Dopper/Egoli/Heaters female. She was always 'on edge' and overly needy as a pup which slowly turned into aggression as she grew. Despite group and indiviual specialized training she became extremely female aggressive, attacking even the most submissive of the females. When attacking she completely ignored her humans commands and had to be dragged off the other dog. She also was diagnosed with hip dysplaysia at 9 months. Could the pain have contributed to her behavior? Possibly, but the unsettled personality was there to begin with.

We had another female with the same combination that showed the same uneasiness within the pack, but when just one on one with another dog she was fine. She was placed in a pet home and is loving life. No aggression at all.

I tend to agree with Marcella that it is the combinations that become the problem. When I had the second dog with the same lines showing the same issues, I started asking around about those specific lines; I offended other breeders with no intent to do so.....I just wanted to know if it was a pattern.

 

[Cat]

I had a female with these same problems. She had an awful immune system to start with which led to never over coming mange. And then she started attacking smaller dogs very very randomly. Female aggression was a terrible problem. I'll figure out her lines and expand on this later I just had to comment. I'm very interested aswell.

[JonP]

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences Fuller and Lisa. I really appreciate the help with this!