Working Boerboels

[Sharon Bank]

I am curious as to how many of you plan to work your Boerboels in some type of profession or sport?   

Please tell me what you are training in, or what you plan to train in, and where you are located (State and Country).  Even if you don't work your pup now, are you planning to work it?  Do you appreciate the attributes of a working Boerboel, or could you care less?  Did any of you just buy your dog for a pet and family companion, with no interest in work?  Even if you don't work your Boerboel now, if you could, would you try if you had the time and opportunity?  (I know how difficult it can be with our busy schedules to want to do things that we just don't seem to have time for. There is no shame in that.  Plus not everyone has easy access to working Clubs or trainers who can help.)

I'm also curious about those people who purchased a Boerboel with the intention of strictly having it for a family pet.  Why a Boerboel, and not a Great Dane or English Mastiff or other type breed that *generally* has a softer temperament?  Were you attracted by the looks of the Boerboel, or by its potential with respect to a serious family guardian and its working temperament?    

There are no wrong or right answers.  I'm just trying to do a little research with respect to where this breed is headed and the mindset of puppy buyers and owners.  Thanks in advance!  

[Marco]

I am glad to see this post and had thought of doing one similar. You have done it better than I would have. :) This is something constantly on my mind with my puupy. I would love to do something on the working line of things. Had been thinking about therapy work, tracking, and maybe protection. I am still trying to do my research first. I have read it seems like a lot of these require me to be doing the work now with Kenzo. I've read a working dog should be raised differently than a family dog. I would love to know who all here is currently involved with a working dog so I can ask questions :) At work will write more later.

[Aescleah]

hi
i got zephyr for several reasons first and foremost was a pet when i as researching way back when i was very interested in german shepherds for the intelligence and the biddibility but wanted a molloser and after researching i thought a boerboel fit the bill i was and still am very interested in drafting and some obedience. i loved the fact they could be used to do many different things, and as they learn so would i like the idea of a working dog but right now i dont think i am ready for one. so zeph has a very good temperament for me sorta laid back but pretty out going, not very protective though that may change as she gets older. we will see. protection was never really something i was thinking about though it does interest me. i think i need to learn more about training. i take it sorta seriously and i need to make a more informed decision and if it would be good for my dog or not .

Ashley

[Carrie Kruczek]

We got Gage, who is now almost 18 months old, as a family pet when he was 8 wks old. I like the idea of a large dog as home protection, mainly as a deterrent . My daughter actually chose the boerboel because she wanted something unusual, and liked the looks of the breed. We had met one that was very friendly, and we bought into the numerous breed descriptions on the internet ((usually on breeders websites!) about their amazing ability to tell friend from foe, their love of children, etc. I had plenty of large breed experience with rotties and dobermans and felt prepared for a boerboel. He has been far tougher than I imagined as far as dealing with his temperament. He is calm and well-behaved around the house, (so far) good with our other dogs and cats, obedient, and devoted but not at all affectionate, and...we have been through 2 behaviorists, 2 personal trainers, and endless classes and still he is so hyper-reactive to strangers that he can only go in public with two of us holding 2 leashes! With a great deal of work we have been able to get him to walk calmly, but he is on guard every second that he is away from home. We have a six foot fence with padlocked gates, and before anyone enters our home he is safely locked away upstairs. I can't imagine a dog less suited for a busy family life! He is a very serious dog, certainly more than we bargained for, and in all honesty does not belong in a safe, suburban neighborhood. That being said, I love my boy and fortunately, my children are old enough that we can safely manage him. Sorry, I've probably strayed a bit from what you asked for, but imo this breed is headed for trouble if breeders continue to perpetrate the "superdog" myths, in truth, these dogs should be placed very carefully. Jenny at Quo Vadis seems to be one of the few who is really honest about what this breed is like. Unless you happen to stumble on one of the forums before you get a boerboel, it's very easy to be unaware of what awaits you,.Most breeders qualify a potential puppy buyer by the size of their checkbook, rather than the suitability of the home...and in most cases, this breed is too much for the average pet owner. It's ironic that I live in a very safe environment with a boerboel, so rather than him needing to protect me.from the outside world..I have to protect the outside world from him!

[Angela]

I wanted a pet, and that's exactly what Zola is to me. We train Shutzhund with our other dog, and it's a great way to teach obedience, we found that Zola loves "the game" and it's what we use to train so she's "learning" obedience and play. If she continues to enjoy the training we will continue to train with her... if at anytime we feel (myself, my boyfriend and our trainer) it's stressing her out, or is creating an unsafe dog... we won't advance in shutzhund training any farther. I've been involved in the same club for three years.... we train with mals, presas, dutch shep. and other breeds, most of these breeds were bred specifically for the sport, others (like the presa and Zola) not so much. It scares me to think that the boerboel breed is heading down the same road as some of the other mossler breeds.
I don't believe that EVERY boerboel is able to be trained in a working sport, ever dog bred is different, each has it's own personality. I also think that the type of trainer and the method of training plays a large factor on how the dog will react, it's important that the trainer knows when the dog is being pushed to far. I don't think that a dog that trains out of defense is a "safe" dog, especially with this breed. Someone with a strong big tough attitude that trains to have a big strong mean dog is a liability to the breed and it's reputation... but so is someone who's training and has no idea what they are doing....
Carrie mentions the complete hog wash that most breeders push about these dogs, thankfully she has the ability and common sense to care for her dog like it needs to be. Realizing that you have a dog that needs to be put away (or should be put away) when company comes over is so important. Thankfully she has the common sense to see that her dog while a baby to the family, may be a danger to others that enter her home. This is how "accidents" are avoided.
I think listening to people who are willing to tell you the truth about this strong breed is something that everyone should do, these dogs aren't for everyone and an honest person will tell you that. Training is ultra important, it can't be stressed enough (in my opinion). I'm all for working dogs, and working sports, but I don't think every dog can or should work, and I don't believe that owners are willing to admit that their dog "might" not be stable enough for the sport. It's hard for some owners of the breed to realize that their "puppy" will grow into a large strong dog, that might not get along with other dogs or animals, and might not accept strangers inside or outside of the house. Being able to admit that is super important, and that has nothing to do with the dog and everything to do with the owner.
All of this is my personal opinion of course, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but the breed is becoming extremely popular... I'd hate to see it get a negative reputation....

[Nicole]

Great post Sharon! We got Lexa as a family protector and she does a that job very well. We are a very active family and own a male pit bull, and a female pit bull/Catahoula leopard mix. I don't think you get more hyperactive then those guys! They also have no protection qualities at all and we had some problems in our area with home robbery and breaking into cars. We live in a nicer neighborhood and it was safe but the recent economic hardship has made people do things that wouldn't normally do. Therefore our interest in a guarding breed. My family has always had protection dogs, usually GSDs and a couple dobermans, all shutzhund trained and were treated as working dogs (we didn't train them, we bought them as adults). I didn't want another GSD and wanted something different but still had a great guarding quality and could keep up with my active family, leading me to the Boerboel.

Since my Husband works at horse shows and works the weekends and long hours he felt more comfortable leaving us with Lexa on guard. She does not like strangers but usually people don't even like to come close to my dogs. (Which is fine by me!) I have no problem telling people that she is uncomfortable being petted. We have worked hard on training her and I do wish I could train her even further. She is a very eager dog to please and easily trained. We have no issues with her in the family and she adores my daughter and kids in general, just not too found of adults. We have been very pleased with Lexa and was everything we expected and more! I would say this is most definitely not a dog for everyone or every family but she works really well with ours!

[Urs]

We first came to own our first bb after we sadly lost our Rottie. My partner works a lot of nights and we have always had a guardian at home with me when I have been home alone. We live in a nice place, however we have fields backing onto the property directly at the back which are open to some opportunistic people! What we were looking for was a dog with the ability of intergrating well into our home as a loyal guardian, but with the abilty to alert and protect. They aren't classed as "working dogs" per se as far as it comes to working a farm or anything like that, but they do have their job to do at home and they do it very well. When I am on my own, you can see the switch turn to on, they are on full alert. They work together and I'm very pleased that they have this ability instinctively. If there is something they deem to be a possible threat they each guard an entrance to the home and they will stay there all night if they have to in guard mode. They are stood down as soon as I am no longer alone and they enter relax mode. This is something else they do very well, they are fantastic to live with and absolutley adore their extended family esp my parents and love nothing more than a snuggle up on the couch. We do however know the capabilities of our breed we are under no illusion that they are a labrador in a bigger body, neither do we want them to be. Both ours have had times when they are in serious "mean it" mode, when we are fully aware of what they can be capable of, which would probably scare the hell out of some people if they had not fully researched before purchasing a cute puppy.

With regard to working them in a sport, we had hoped at one time to get Sheeba into agility as it was something we thought she would be good at, she loves to jump and as a youngster would fly through the tunnels, sadly timing was off for us as we had Snoops to look after and get through his ops and then the centre that did agility in our area closed down. They are kept active by runs over the downs, an area which provides them with natures sport "hunting"! Nothing they love more than to go rabbiting or tracking down pheasant, its fantastic to watch you get a buzz out of seeing their happiness. Followed by a snooze on the couch (yes also an ability!!lol)

[Sharon Bank]

Great responses from everyone! I agree with Jenny that it would be nice if all potential puppy buyers could read this.

I have a few points, and I will address them one at a time. In a sense, there are a lot of topics that can be spawned from this post into separate conversations.

Marco, we met recently and I had an opportunity to meet Kenzo. He is a sweetheart! He reminds me of Jaf when he was that age -- very outgoing and a social butterfly. I wanted to comment on your comment about reading that a working dog should be raised differently than a family dog.

In theory, I agree with what people say about raising a working dog differently, but in reality I don't think it applies to Boerboels. The reason I say this is that people with herders -- GSDs, Mals, etc., need to treat their working dogs differently because they don't want to turn them into mushy "pets". They will typically ask that people "not pet their puppy", keep it crated or kenneled at night and away from the family, etc. I think these tactics help to toughen the dog up. I have owned a working GSD in the past, and now that I have 2 Boerboels I can see a major temperament difference between these breeds. A Boerboel can get socialized to the nth degree as a youngster, but they get a very serious mindset as they mature. What takes a handler some conscientious thought and planning to get their herder to do -- be reserved and watchful of strangers, comes very naturally to a Boerboel. One day you wake up and your cuddly, wuddly little puppy has an edge on him that make strangers shudder. I think a Boerboel that is isolated from its family, lives on a strict regime or isn't allowed to be socialized with friendly strangers can become a dangerous dog. This is not a statement that is applicable in all situations with all dogs and/or Boerboels, just something I have observed.

Then there seem to be some Boerboels out there that are complete mush balls, even into adulthood. I can't explain that, except that some breeders are trying to breed the Boerboel out of the Boerboel. I'm scratching my head over that one!

I think a young working Boerboel should be showered with love and affection, with some discipline thrown in when needed. I don't think they need to be treated "like a dog" or a second-class citizen to become protective and watchful. The handler doesn't have to be the Drill Sergeant when dealing with a young BB. When they start to mature mentally, they will start to show what they're made of. My 2 cents.

Speaking of work, there is "real" work and there is sport work. Most dogs involved in dog sports are having fun, and may not have a serious bone on their body. I'm not saying that all dogs that are training in sports won't engage a real threat -- some will, and some won't. It's important to know the difference, and what you want out of your dog. It's also important to know your dog so that you have realistic expectations about how well they will do in any given situation -- whether it's a real life threat or a competition for points. I think Boerboels, if raised with love and trust and trained properly, can excel at both. Of course, this is dependent on the individual dog, its genetic background, environmental influencers and its training.

I have more to say, but I better shut up for now! Hopefully we can keep this conversation going.

[jim l.]

Hello, I got my first Boerboel in 2000, I imported him from a very well known breeder he was a beautiful boy. I was working nights then and wanted a good guard dog, after reading and researching Boereboels i instantly fell in love with them, he would be on guard protecting my home and family,altough he was a big dog i really had my doubts about his ability to confront a threat or bad situation, he would bark and jump at sounds or strangers at the door but i think if it came down to it i doubt he would seriously harm anyone. My new pup on the other hand is a real serious dog, outside the house in public he is calm as could be, graet tempermant, but inside the house or the yard he i am sure if he had to he would confront in a second, he has proven that a couple times already. He does this naturally since he was 3 months old, all this being said i love boerboels, and my only regret is i could only afford one at a time.

[Mandy Windt]

Hello, on the run as usual, just wanted to say Sharon, your comment: " I think a Boerboel that is isolated from its family, lives on a strict regime or isn't allowed to be socialized with friendly strangers can become a dangerous dog." I agree 110%

[Jennifer Sider]

I actually lucked out when I got Dora. I wasn't in the market for another dog specifically. I had my Central Asian Shepherd, she was my home guardian and at the time she was O.K. for what I was "thought" I wanted. (She ended up being too defensive and too independent for my tastes and has since rejoined her breeder to the betterment of her (she now lives in a dog pack) and me, since I have no further angst over keeping her happy). I was contacted by Dora's breeder because I hand-craft custom leather collars and she had a litter she wanted to purchase collars for. After talking back and forth and having a good chin-wag about the breed and Dora's sire and dam, she asked me if I would consider a co-ownership on pick bitch puppy. Not one to turn down the opportunity to play with the big dogs; I promptly replied YES!
After meeting Dora's dam Afrika Tina and her sire Sunjika Muskoka Gator; I was sold. They reminded me so much of my old APBT Indy; but in a mastiff body; with better protective instincts.
So I got Dora home and the rest is history. She's a gem. I had read the breed "glamour history" and had talked over with Marcella what was true/not true. We debunked the health claims and she told me what her dogs were all about and what they had accomplished.
I think a good Boerboel represents the breed "glamour history" well, but my idea of a good Boerboel and apparently the expectation of a lot of dog owners isn't the same.
I like a tough dog, doesn't back down from a threat, intuitive, intelligent, good with kids, bull-type, protective. I am a dominant personality so they better step up to the plate, no shrinking sallies here, but when Momma says jump at the end of the day; they better jump. I believe in discipline and prong collars, rewards while learning, but corrections when necessary. She is unfazed by anything I throw at her.

She is primarily used for home/personal protection. I would play around with her with other stuff as time and money allow. She'll do obedience to please me, she'll do agility to please me. Bite work she will do to please me; she does not view biting a sleeve or tug toy to be a "game", there is no playing with strangers. This is the second guardian breed I've owned that doesn't "play the game". The last one I allowed to be tested in defense and she got very intense; never played the game; just short-circuited the agitator by going over the sleeve for his head; oddly enough he didn't want to play anymore. I'm a bit hesitant to try this with Dora, since she shows such strong natural instincts. I would love to do some situational work with her; but no prey tug toys and sleeves. My girlfriend has trained her GSD as a cadaver dog, and is in the process of training her Mali as a bed-bug dog; so if we get some time I'll play around with scent discrimination; I want a vocal alert on marijuana to bug the kids; I think it would be fun!

I think one of the bigger problems with this breed is money talks. Too many breeders are selling puppies to first time mastiff owners; and aren't explaining the particulars of large, dominant breed behaviour. 99% of people who meet Dora think that her hip checking and body slamming is her way of saying she loves them. Errmm, not, and I often offend them by correcting her. People that don't get that; shouldn't be owning this breed. People that believe only in positive reinforcement and don't understand what a prong collar might possibly be used for; shouldn't own this breed. Do all of them need a prong; not necessarily; Dora's brother doesn't wear one -- but you have to be willing to use a variety of tools with large dominant breed dogs, and too many people buy into purely positive and can't see a way out.

[Angela]

Very well said Jennifer... I see eye to eye with you on prong collars and corrections!

Jennifer Sider said:

I actually lucked out when I got Dora. I wasn't in the market for another dog specifically. I had my Central Asian Shepherd, she was my home guardian and at the time she was O.K. for what I was "thought" I wanted. (She ended up being too defensive and too independent for my tastes and has since rejoined her breeder to the betterment of her (she now lives in a dog pack) and me, since I have no further angst over keeping her happy). I was contacted by Dora's breeder because I hand-craft custom leather collars and she had a litter she wanted to purchase collars for. After talking back and forth and having a good chin-wag about the breed and Dora's sire and dam, she asked me if I would consider a co-ownership on pick bitch puppy. Not one to turn down the opportunity to play with the big dogs; I promptly replied YES!
After meeting Dora's dam Afrika Tina and her sire Sunjika Muskoka Gator; I was sold. They reminded me so much of my old APBT Indy; but in a mastiff body; with better protective instincts.
So I got Dora home and the rest is history. She's a gem. I had read the breed "glamour history" and had talked over with Marcella what was true/not true. We debunked the health claims and she told me what her dogs were all about and what they had accomplished.
I think a good Boerboel represents the breed "glamour history" well, but my idea of a good Boerboel and apparently the expectation of a lot of dog owners isn't the same.
I like a tough dog, doesn't back down from a threat, intuitive, intelligent, good with kids, bull-type, protective. I am a dominant personality so they better step up to the plate, no shrinking sallies here, but when Momma says jump at the end of the day; they better jump. I believe in discipline and prong collars, rewards while learning, but corrections when necessary. She is unfazed by anything I throw at her.

She is primarily used for home/personal protection. I would play around with her with other stuff as time and money allow. She'll do obedience to please me, she'll do agility to please me. Bite work she will do to please me; she does not view biting a sleeve or tug toy to be a "game", there is no playing with strangers. This is the second guardian breed I've owned that doesn't "play the game". The last one I allowed to be tested in defense and she got very intense; never played the game; just short-circuited the agitator by going over the sleeve for his head; oddly enough he didn't want to play anymore. I'm a bit hesitant to try this with Dora, since she shows such strong natural instincts. I would love to do some situational work with her; but no prey tug toys and sleeves. My girlfriend has trained her GSD as a cadaver dog, and is in the process of training her Mali as a bed-bug dog; so if we get some time I'll play around with scent discrimination; I want a vocal alert on marijuana to bug the kids; I think it would be fun!

I think one of the bigger problems with this breed is money talks. Too many breeders are selling puppies to first time mastiff owners; and aren't explaining the particulars of large, dominant breed behaviour. 99% of people who meet Dora think that her hip checking and body slamming is her way of saying she loves them. Errmm, not, and I often offend them by correcting her. People that don't get that; shouldn't be owning this breed. People that believe only in positive reinforcement and don't understand what a prong collar might possibly be used for; shouldn't own this breed. Do all of them need a prong; not necessarily; Dora's brother doesn't wear one -- but you have to be willing to use a variety of tools with large dominant breed dogs, and too many people buy into purely positive and can't see a way out.

[Becky Carr]

This one is in always in my mind with dogs that come into my life. I have gone school with my current dog budd (border collie husky) for obedience and sled dog training. I have yet to get a boreboel, while i do want the dog around to feel safe, I don't plan to do protection training. I would love to do obedience (all levels), therapy dog school, maybe weight pull training and I'm sure my boreboel will end up doing a little sled dog training (I don't plan to leave the boreboel at home when i go out to work with my "sled dog"). I thought of weight pull because it would be nice to do some kind of competitive fun sport. I just cant see agility or fly ball for boreboels lol. I'm still researching what the best things to do with a boreboel are, but I want to do something.

Working dogs I think are happy dogs if they aren't overworked and if they love what they do. Especially if its the owner using the work as bonding time.