aggression...

[Matina H.]

Hi everyone,

I am on a quest to help a friend of mine. We got our BB when he was 9 weeks old from what we thought a good breeder. Our dog is doing pretty well with a few issues here and there which I might address in another discussion. We are already experienced with big and also stubborn breeds as we have a Rottweiler and an American Bulldog. Our friends fell in love with our BB and decided after thinking back and forth and reading a lot about the breed that they wanted one as well. It so happened that our breeders still had one available. He was 5 months by that time, they were going to keep him for breeding purposes but decided to give him up, because they had too many dogs in the house already. They brought him over and he took to my friend right away. He kept going back to her but also acknowledged the other family members. Once the breeders left he became really insecure. He would not go up the steps, he would cling to my friend, he was good with the kids and the husband but only trusted her. We go to dog school weekly and take him and my dog out for hour long walks in the woods every day. He is starting to get more aggressive though. He was always timid with people but it is now that he is starting to charge at them and other dogs. They neutered him at the age of 8 months hoping it would make a difference. He will come storming at you in the house but if you ignore him he will back off. If he notices that you are afraid he will not back down. He started growling at the kids in the house when they would come and try to pet him. When we walk in the woods and he is off leash he is wonderful. He will leave people alone and if dogs are near he might sniff and play but walk away when called. On the leash a total different story. We have read up and tried many things. Currently she is trying to make him lay and stay in one place when a visitor is coming to the house. Outside she is trying to walk a different direction in order to distract him but that is not always possible. Any suggestions on how we can help him?

 

Greetings

 

Matina

[Matina H.]

no input from anyone? hhhmmmm...i'll keep researching then...:-(

 

Matina

[Rory Neufeld]

Choke chain and proper timing is key. Growling at a kid is completely unacceptable and the first time it happens the dog needs to have a profound experience. i kept a short leash on his chain when he was a pup it helps alot but if you are late with your correction dont pull the chain! They have to know its disipline your after not hurting him. catch him unaware when he is getting focused intensely on his object of choice and poke him in the haunches with your thumb quickly and say no or whatever your bad word is. It takes a while my male was very stubborn and at around 10 months there was some bloodshed in our house he was aggitated and i grabbed his collar and he got ahold of my finger. well my other hand grabbed the chain and he let go but i learned that he is very sensitive to my mood. if i get angry, he will fight back (when he was a younger pup). Now he is awesome! still not the most affectionate dog in the word, but he knows the rules.

Basically to me, and i am no expert here, it sounds like he is trying to take over and it is going to take consistant corrections, and having him lay on a bed in the living room is a good start for disipline. takes awhile but now when i sit on my couch he hits his pillow with a bone or toy like its second nature. no words when correcting just a sound or no! eye contact until he breaks and convey seriousness not anger. No means no. when i am eating he lays in the hallway outside of the kitchen no exceptions. cant go through doors without an "okay". drop a steak on the ground and he just stares at me. he wont go for it he knows its not his. all the little things add up. i never let my guy be scared of anything. i tought him "hit it" with a clicker and a margerine lid and treats and now when something spooks him he is guided toward the thing and he gets a "whats that?' and he gets close and i say hit it and he does and then i say good boy and pet him and we move on and try it again tomorrow, same with a crashing baby gate.

now my guy Kongo will roll around on the floor with me playin with toys without freaking out if i roll on top of him or he gets in a vulnerable position, when he was a pup i think he thought i was going to hurt him but now he knows its just playing. we play a little tug but i would bet he pulls at 50% i never let him go crazy on it and if he gets growly toy goes away. now he is awesome i can tug hard but playfully and he drops on command.

so get a training collar on him and take control! when he fixates a quick sharp tug is all you need DO NOT keep it tight unless you want to experiance what a boerboel is capable of...if he freaks lift up enough so he cant get you but not hard where you would be choking and he will sit.

The longest i ever had kongo laying on his side with his head on the ground with me not touching was 1hr45mins on christmas eve when he was around 8 months. finally took a big deep breath and relaxed ears back i stood up and walked away. maybe had to do it 2 more times 20 mins 30 mins and now he never gets to excited where i cant get him to calm down. hope some of this helps your boy out and if not seek a professionals help, they are big boys and i would never let my wife do anything like this by herself while he is learning.

[Marco]

Im at work, very busy but wanted to make a quick response.  Have you had the chance to read over these sections on the site below?  Some of it sounds fearful, while some of it sounds dominant.  I would not let the children around him till things are under control.  I also would not correct him him for growling, because its a warning sign, a form of communicaton.  Take away the growl, and you may get a bite without warning.  Just some thoughts for now, I hope things get better.

 

Articles Boerboel Owners Should Read

Training Info

 

About growling

Thank your dog for growling

Understanding Dog Growling and Dog Language

 

[Sweet Pea]

I didn't see you post before, Matina, sorry. I only have a few minutes, but just want to agree with what Marco said. When a dog is growling, they are communicating that they are uncomfortable. Punishing him for that would get undesired results. Next time he may just skip the growl and bite. Are the kids wild? Are they treating him respectfully? What has the breeder said about this? Thank goodness he wasn't bred. This is why breeders need to have a 3rd party evaluate the temperaments of their breeding stock. 

It sounds like he is fear aggressive. It also sounds like he needs some more rules and training. He should NOT be allowed free access to visitors until he can behave appropriately. If I were your friend, I would find a good trainer or behaviorist. Also, you mentioned that he seems more reactive on a leash and better off leash. This is a very good book with step by step directions on how to deal with issues like that. "Fiesty Fido, Help For the Leas Reactive Dog", by Patricia McConnell, PhD. It's only about 60 pages and gets right to the point. 

You can also tell your friend to check out the Yahoo group K9 Aggression Support: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/k9aggression-support/

If she doesn't get a handle on this now, it will only get worse. I have a fear aggressive male and I know how stressful it can be. Especially when you realize there is something truly wrong with your pup. 

Kim

[Matina H.]

@rory....no he is not trying to take over...he is actually more or less looking for leadership...putting him down would in my opinion mess up all the trust he has gained so far..but thanks...

[Matina H.]

@marco...thanks marco and yes i have been reading lots and lots and i will keep reading..my friends english is not good enough so i am helping her out this way while she keeps reading the german sites ...a lot of it is definitly fear based and him looking for leadership he can trust and maybe even pain...he's been limping for a while and the vet prescribed pain meds...he is going to have surgery on tuesday

[Matina H.]

@kim...thanks kim unfortunately my friend doesn't speak english well enough to join a group that's why i am helping out. Her children are 11 and 6 and not wild with him just loving :-) we are not communicating with our breeder anymore because of false accusations and unreliability. Actually we believe that they are partly to blame for his behavior. When they brought him over they also brought along their other siblings and while they were playing in the yard he kept getting in between yanking them apart and at one time was going to use his leash to hit them. They had no control over their dogs other than force. They were going to keep my friends dog for breeding purposes but changed their mind. I believe they had too many dogs in the house and couldn't control them any longer. Unfortunately my alarm bells didn't go off in time and so my friend is stuck with this fearful,slightly aggressive ( on leash especially) dog. Putting the dog up and away from the kids or visitors is not an option because the houses here are not that big and usually have an open floorplan so he is in there with them all the time..he is not going upstairs as he is afraid of the stairs.

[Lisa Tiro]

Matina, They should have him crated then. If he doesn't have a crate they need to get one. If this dog bites someone then it's over. He sounds like a kennel dog that got no socialization. It's too bad that they neutered him so young too. That could be the reason he's limping. The articles Marco referred to should help her. Just have her google translate it into German. Good luck to you and your friend.

Do you want to share the name of the breeder here? Maybe so that others won't have the same experience?

~Lisa

[Jens Gunther]

Hi Matina, I tend to agree that your friend is dealing predominantly with fear aggression, although there may be a number of (underlying) problems. I am also reading a nervous cycle/spiral between your friend and the dog - it comes to the fore where you describe how his demeanour changes as soon as he is on lead in combination with his attachment to her. So what happens is that his fear/insecurity makes her nervous, which he reacts to, which makes her more anxious, etc. Thus whenever there is a situation that is out of the ordinary, like friends visiting, things can escalate pretty quickly. I could be wrong. Pain and discomfort certainly can make a Boerboel very reactive and aggressive - pain may by the way also be a reason why he is avoiding the stairs.

I would be careful with confinement in small spaces (e.g. crating) as it might contribute to his fear. He would be unable to remove himself from any uncomfortable situations and might panic. Similarly with any approach that may make him feel more threatened or weaker.

These problems are not easily fixed, but require professional guidance and structure. It can easily get worse if you get it wrong. I would suggest finding a qualified, reputable animal behaviourist who is also a practising trainer to assist. If you do, make sure to check credentials and experience, especially with large breeds. I would imagine a structured desensitisation/socialisation programme with a training programme that involves the entire family to create a structured environment for him (and educate everyone on dealing with him in a consistent, structured, non-threatening way) would be part of a solution.

Jens

[Lisa Tiro]

I disagree Jens. The crate should be his home and "den" to go to when he is feeling stressed or fearful. He needs a place to call his own. I think this dog needs structure as well as training and leadership. jmho

Jens Gunther said:

Hi Matina, I tend to agree that your friend is dealing predominantly with fear aggression, although there may be a number of (underlying) problems. I am also reading a nervous cycle/spiral between your friend and the dog - it comes to the fore where you describe how his demeanour changes as soon as he is on lead in combination with his attachment to her. So what happens is that his fear/insecurity makes her nervous, which he reacts to, which makes her more anxious, etc. Thus whenever there is a situation that is out of the ordinary, like friends visiting, things can escalate pretty quickly. I could be wrong. Pain and discomfort certainly can make a Boerboel very reactive and aggressive - pain may by the way also be a reason why he is avoiding the stairs.

I would be careful with confinement in small spaces (e.g. crating) as it might contribute to his fear. He would be unable to remove himself from any uncomfortable situations and might panic. Similarly with any approach that may make him feel more threatened or weaker.

These problems are not easily fixed, but require professional guidance and structure. It can easily get worse if you get it wrong. I would suggest finding a qualified, reputable animal behaviourist who is also a practising trainer to assist. If you do, make sure to check credentials and experience, especially with large breeds. I would imagine a structured desensitisation/socialisation programme with a training programme that involves the entire family to create a structured environment for him (and educate everyone on dealing with him in a consistent, structured, non-threatening way) would be part of a solution.

Jens

[Matina H.]

@lisa...thanks for your reply...he actually was very well socialized...he lived in the house with the breeders and 5 other dogs, they took him on trips and out for walks..now how they were acting when they were disciplining him i don't know...they used to always lock up the dogs when people came to visit so maybe they put him upstairs and it is a bad memory for him going upstairs... The limping was a problem before the neutering...the vet told us it is very common in big breeds to have elbow injuries. And the neutering was done in hopes that his aggression wouldn't get worse with other dogs...

Matina

[Matina H.]

@jens...fear aggression is what i would call as he is very insecure and often doesn't do things unless you repeat it over and over until he gets confident enough. He never went upstairs even when he was healthy...he is scared you can tell. The spiral/cycle would of course make sense but is not the case here as she is very eager to teach him and will not avoid any situation but always confront it..she has a very strong personality which i believe is one of the reasons he was drawn to her from day 1. Crating is not an option as the space for a huge crate is just not given in these houses and we believe it would not fix the problem anyway. If people are first coming to visit he will bark at them and keep growling during the duration of the visit. If you ignore him he is usually fine...if he sees you again for a second and third time he is fine also. What happened to me today is i came in and he was fine ( he sees me every day)... I walked back in to the foyer and took my jacket of and when i walked back in he growled for a short moment...as if he didn't recognize me right away...i know it is hard to get a perfect picture through a written conversation but i do appreciate all the input and different suggestions...

Matina