What do you expect from your breeder? What would you like to see them do?

[Marco]

What do you expect from your breeder? What would you like to see them do? I think these two questions make for a great discussion. This will not only help future buyers when looking for a breeder, but also help breeders know what they can do to improve. You may also if you would like, mention why you chose the breeder you did. What was it about them that stood out among others out there? You may choose to answer one of these questions or all three. Whichever you do, we would love to hear from you.

[Cornelia]

Ich habe schon 3x einen Hund vom VDH/FCI Züchter gekauft.

Worauf ich geachtet habe :

Das ich ohne Vorbehalte alle Hunde sehen konnte.

Das die Hunde gesundheitlich gecheckt waren und auch auf Ausstellungen gezeigt wurden.

Ich kannte alle Vorfahren meiner Hunde und die Zuchtlinie war mir bekannt.

Das die Hündinnen immer auch gemeinsam mit den Welpen gezeigt wurden.

Auch war es mir immer wichtig das ich mich mit dem Züchter gut verstanden habe das ich auch jederzeit dort anrufen/ um Rat fragen durfte.

Das alle Hunde Familienmitglieder waren !!!

Das die Züchter kompetent auf alle Fragen antworten konnte und er ein ernsthaftes Interesse hatte wo der Hund leben würde.

Liebe Grüße

Conny

 

Translation

 

I already have a dog from the 3x VDH / FCI bought breeders.
What I have taken:

I could see all the dogs without any reservations.

The dogs were checked and health were also shown at exhibitions.

I knew all the ancestors of my dogs and the breeding line was familiar to me.

That the females were always shown together with the puppy.

Was allowed to it was always important that I got on well with the breeder that I also call any time there / ask for advice.

The dogs were all family members!

The breeders could competently answer all questions and he had a serious interest in where the dog would live.

Greetings

Conny

 

[Marco]

Theres a lot that can be said here, I would like to try and cover some things.  I'm sure i will not cover everything so feel free to add or comment on anything mentioned because we learn from each other.

 

Some things to expect

 

First integrity is a must have from your breeder!  Someone with good values, methods, measures, principles, and expectations.  Great outcomes with their program, and their buyers as well.  You must be able to trust who you are dealing with. 

 

Must be able to be contacting by phone, and email.  Willing to give you the time you need to speak with them.  They should reply back in a reasonable amount of time, and answering all your questions if able.  Breeders should also have questions for you as well.  This shows they care where their puppy will be going, and not just selling to anyone. 

 

The breeder your looking at should have great interest in the breed and have good experience with.  I've seen a lot of breeders who breed so many different types of dogs at once.  I personally want a breeder whos interest are focused on the one breed I am looking at.  Everyone that breeds has to start somewhere so just because its their first or second litter doesn't mean that they are a bad breeder. It is however important that a person breeding should have great experience over the years with dogs.

 

Pedigree of their dogs should be available, as well as health information.  Breeding stock should be hip certified by OFA, Pennhip, or any other foreign hip certification.  Should always explain in detail the potential genetic, and developmental problems inherent to the breed.

 

Kennel should be clean, if not find another breeder.  A clean kennel says a lot about the breeder, and their dogs.

 

Should be involved in a breed breed organization, and breed show.  Breeders who are looking to improve on the breed will show them.  You also you need to know if they are breeding working dogs or show dogs.

 

The guarentee some do, and some do not.  Make sure its in writting, and are able to view ahead of time.  No matter how great the breeder is there is always a chance of getting a bad pup.  Its how the breeder handles that which can define them.  Find out how often they breed, and how often they have had to replace a pup.  Your replacement could take a very long time.

 

The breeder should offer help, and guidance after the pup is in your possession.

 

Some of the things I would like to see more of

 

professionalism and organization

 

Over the years I have delt, seen, and heard from others about many breeders.  A lot of which are about the same breeders which many have bought from.  I notice things seem to be handled randomly with each person.  A lot of what I see does not in anyway seem planned out.  One person may get a call from the breeder, and another person may not.  One buyer might get several photos, while another buyer from same breeder may only get one.  The list of things that are different goes on, but I think you understand.  Breeders should have a plan layed out for their buyers so they know whats going on over the whole process.  Nothing worse than playing the waiting game, and not knowing what to expect.

 

Information- We should not have to ask for it, it should be given.  Some breeders have websites filled with great information on them, and their dogs.  There are others that don't, or not enough.  This should be provided by email or phone.  When a litter is in question, the right info should be shared.  A description of the parents strong points, weak points, history, and so on.  What they expect from the litter, why they chose to mate the two.  These are just a some of the things that should be mentioned.  Information, and updates on the pup as it grows can be given with photos.  I think a lot of times breeders forget, or loose that connection with their pups.  A pup is being purchased as a new family member for the next 10 years or so.  We want to know everything about them, just like a breeder would want to know about a new stud.   We should not have to pry the information out of them.

 

Photos -  Photos are a wonderful thing to a buyer.  It can be are first connection they make with their pup, especially if they are not able to visit the kennel.  Before the pup is born send photos of the parents.  When pups are born send a litter picture.  Then have certain time frames you let your buyers know you will be sending pictures of the pup. Example 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, and 10 weeks.  Why is this so hard??  I see some breeders who do this well, while others are very random.

 

Puppy packet - To provide important information to your buyers.  Health & history record, Food & feeding guidlines, basic needs & care.  Here is a great example of what I am talking about    Puppy Packett Suggestions

 

 These are just some of my thoughts.  I'm at work and about to leave so I will try to add more later.

 

 

 

[Savas Pilarinos]

I would like breeders to keep health as No1 priority!!! And I wish we would be treated as they would like themselves to be treated... Just something I wanted to add... Pls continue

 

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

In know I an casting a bit of a bomb now, but just think a bit about what I am saying before you get angry. Lots of owners complain about the health of their dogs, regardless of which race and at the same ttime they push the responsibility for this on the breeders. Breeders are like colours of the rainbow, there are the obvious ones and there are the ones that you cannot see without looking into it further. They are of all shades.

 

The person that buys a dog without checking the health papers and understanding them is in fact helping the breeders that do not test or at least only does it for show. What do I mean by only does it for show?

Well there are breeders that still breed on dogs that have elbows worse than 0:0. The object of testing is to find unsuitable dogs and remove them from the breedding program. Some breeders will dazzle you with their willingness to test, but still breed on the dogs that are ill.

 

It is exactly the same with HD, if a breeder uses PennHIP, the certificate states in red writing that if a dog has DJD, it should not be used in breeding, there are breeders that do breed on dogs that have DJD. The same with the FCI system.

 

It is also the same with Vaginal Prolapse or hyperplasia.

 

My advice to buyers is if you do not understand what you are looking at and do not understand the consequences, contact someone that does. That way you can support the breeders that are trying to make a difference or force the others to do something instead of tricking people.

 

Shaun

 

[Phil Harris]

So, no one will like what I am going to say here. Until dna is regularly tested, no one will ever really know where their pup is coming from. I knew rottie breeders that would add pups to a littler and get extra litter papers, I know for a fact that some BB breeders are just as unscrupulous. I know line breeding (sire to daughter) goes on frequently. This is known to give a good looking litter,where the sire throws pups that are like him,  but it is where many genetic defects begin. It is so hard to pick a breeder. Someone who had integrity and priciples two years ago may be now suffering from financial woes and will do whatever it takes to sell dogs. They call it a business. Back when I was breeding and training Rotties, I sold pups to folks that went from first time dog owners to "breeders" overnight. This is where the breed falls apart. 

[Phil Harris]

One more thing on breeders. Here at this awesome site, we have some power as a group of owners/potential owners. I do think promoting good breeders, ethical breeders who stand behind their lines is a powerful encouragement to them. No matter how decent a breeder you are there will always be pups that are born with bad hips/elbows etc. This breed was brought back by very few dogs and so there are some problems. How the breeder stands behind their dogs is what is important. I also cant think of a way that being a breeder and an appraiser does not allow conflicts. I have seen irregularities in the SABT scores of some breeder/appraisers. I build houses, I could not inspect my houses or a builder friends houses, there is a conflict. Lets get the halos off of the breeders. They are business men and with dogs costing so much money it is time we as a group realize that few breeders are going to euthanize dogs that look good but have bad genes.

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Which ever way you look at it, it is difficult for the breeder. If a breeder deccides that they are going to get a particular problem out of the race, it is impossible to just get rid of all the dogs that show this problem. Let´s take Vaginal prolapse as an example.

About 30% of all the females we originally imported from South Africa developed a prolapse. This does not mean that 70% of them did not bear the genes for prolapse, in fact more than 60% of the females had the gene. It would be an impossible situation to test and remove 60% of anyones breeding stock.

The correct way to rectify the situation was to first understand the process that leads to a prolapse, then understand how it occurs, then try to stop it occuring.

The way we did it was to find out that it needed to bearers to create offspring that were either bearers or developed the problem, then we found males that did not bear the gene (we have never used females that developed a prolapse), we only used males that did not carry the gene and that stopped the prolapses straight away. Of course some of the females still carry the gene, but this gets watered down in each successive generation.

 

Not all breeders are just after your money, some really do try to solve the issues.

Shaun

[Savas Pilarinos]

Shaun, I understand what you mean but that's not always the case. I searched as much as I could. I even asked a Top greek breeder to help me choose.. Saw papers, scores, x rays. I was always near, while pup not to let him run too much, not jump, climb stairs etc. I didn't even imagine that he could have any problems. Though I ended up with ED/HD/ and mange.. And my wish was to become a breeder.. Starting with this.. I worked my arse off to buy him... but...

Anyway..  I still have a beautiful dog with a very nice character! And I'm grateful for that part.. 

I know it's luck(genetics).. But that chance is really low if the breeder is truly devoted to have healthy dogs. As the friend I told you. The breeder I know, small faults in a dog will mean, no breeding... 

[Rosita Thorn]

I totally agree with Phil and Shaun. In my many years in the sport of dogs my motto has always been: Select only the BEST meaning the healthiest, soundest of mind, the most beautiful and correct speciments of the breed as well as having all the natural instincts from the time they are puppies as to what the breed was original intended for and check the parents, grands and if at all possible the siblings of parents and grands for all of the above traits. If there is a rotten apple in the basket so to speak, do NOT breed from one of these dogs, it will come back to hunt you in the near future.  Everything is heredetary the good as well as the bad. A good knowledgeable and ethical breeder that truly cares about the breed will adhere to these requirements before planning a breeding. Even with the most careful of breeding selections, you still can have a marginal puppy in the litter, but that puppy/puppies again needs to be eliminated from any breeding program in order to try to eliminate the continuation of the undesirale genes.  As we are dealing with lifes , no matter how careful a breeding program is, there will always be a lemon, even manmade appliances or cars have lemons now and then. The difference lies with uncaring or unknowledgeable breeders who do not care and breed anything for profit and they are the ones that break unsuspecting buyers their heart by selling them inferior and/or sick  puppies. And it is people like these that are always destroying any breed. I also agree with your post Marco with one exeption and this is: I do not believe in the seperation of working or show dogs. To me an excellent representative of a breed is one that excells in the show ring as well as in working events/trails etc. If it is just a working dog, most of the time they are lacking in correct conformation/standart/type of the breed and if they are just show dogs and do not have the skills that they were bred for then they are not good representatives of the breed either.

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Hello Savas, if everybody has done all they can to eliminate the problem, and it still comes, then I hope the breeder will replace your puppy free of charge. In our case we give up to 6 years guarantee on a puppy. It must be said that one of the reasons we can give such a long guarantee is that we have always pennhip tested, we have seen the hip scores fall from the original 0,68 average to under 0,42 average. Mostly we have seen the amoount of dogs that developed HD under the FCI system fall from the original 30% to a figure that is not worth measuring, 2 dogs in 3 years. With mastiff type dogs this is unheard of.

 

Shaun

[Savas Pilarinos]

Yep told me to replace it if I want. But I can't send him back.. It's nice to see that kind of a guarantee.. About the FCI u mean it is accepting worse HD in dogs than it used to?? If so, that is bad... You know, here there is a good breeder of greek molossers, a friend took a fem pup from him so he can start breeding since he has a male already. And the breeder because he liked him he gave him 1 more puppy for free... !!! Hahaha Amazing? I'm not a breeder so I don't know if someone can do that or if the income are not enough, but if I was a breeder I wish I could do that kind of stuff!!

That breeder I know of has said to me, that no money come from breeding. Cause what she gets she gives it to buy other good dogs from Europe etc... 

Good morning!

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

There is very little or no money in breeding, the sensible breeder is the one that has another income besides the breeding, otherwise they may be forced to make decisions that compromise quality.

 

I am not sure what you mean by "But I can´t send him back" if a customer has to use our guarantee, we do not want the dog back, it can live its life out at the owner´s property with the people it knows and trusts. We just give a free puppy when it is suitable for the owner.

Shaun