Boerboel vs Ysterberg Mastiff

[Retha]

I am curious as to the following. Breeders that are breeding both the Ysterberg Mastiff and the Boerboel, will they be breeding with two seperate breeds, or will they be cross-breeding these two breeds. I am confused. Surely the Boerboel is a breed on it's own, and the Ysterberg Matiff is a breed on it's own?
Can anyone with the needed info please explain.

[Aescleah]

i am really looking forward to hearing more on this topic

 

Ashley

[Dries Lloyd]

see www.ysterbergmastiff.com

[jim l.]

I'am confused, what makes up a Ysterberg Mastiff, the site really has no information.

[Midhad]

Old English Mastiff, Bullmastiff, Old English Bulldog, Bullterrier and even some Tosa.

jim loukoutos said:

I'am confused, what makes up a Ysterberg Mastiff, the site really has no information.

[Retha]

I am also a bit confused Jim, hence my post. I have been to the site several weeks ago already, and it doesn't state very clearly.

What I also want to know is the following : Are breeders breeding both Boerboels and Ysterberg Mastiffs going to breed these breeds completely seperately, or are they going to crossbreed?

[Paul Dang]

okay so it is a widely accepted fact that a bullmastiff is a 60 percent old english mastiff and 40 percent old english long-legged bulldog (nothing like the american stubby variety) so really the first three parts of this equation would be redundant.....so it would be similar to breeding a bullmastiff with a bull terrier and a Tosa....another question is how much of the Tosa and terrier will be introduced? what will the dominant traits be when all these breeds are mixed together?

Midhad said:

Old English Mastiff, Bullmastiff, Old English Bulldog, Bullterrier and even some Tosa.

jim loukoutos said:

I'am confused, what makes up a Ysterberg Mastiff, the site really has no information.

[Sahara Boerboels]

Very interesting discussion.  I think that many people feel the same confusion.  From my understanding the Ysterberg Mastiff is a Boerboel is it not? Ysterberg is a breeding line of many Boerboels.  For example my Sahara's grandfather was Ysterberg Sokket and many of the great Boerboels that have been created have come from the old Ysterberg lines.  From what I can gather the Ysterberg Mastiff has been created to keep the Ysterberg lines as strong as possible with the intention to only breed from dogs and bitches with 50% or more Ysterberg.

If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me as this just my understanding from visiting their site and from ongoing discussions regarding the new Ysterberg Mastiff that have been answered by many of the founders.

[Retha]

The Ysterberg Mastiff cannot be a Boerboel if they are appying to register a new breed at KUSA and the FCI. Also by their own admittance they have now admitted that the Ysterberg dogs were never Boerboels in the first place, they were Ysterberg Mastiffs - a breed on it's own. If you want to preserve a breeding line, you don't go and register a new BREED, you create a breeding pool of dogs and breeders that breed together.
I have been told that dogs that conform to the Ysterberg Mastiff breed standard will be registred as Ysterberg Mastiffs, and the others will be registered as Boerboels. So are breeders now going to register two different breeds out of the same litter?! I certainly do not hope so!!
Dogs that were bred using purely Ysterberg lines were registered as Boerboels, eventhough apparently they were all the time not Boerboels but Ysterberg Mastiffs. This woul explain the big problem we have with the the oversize and colouring in the Boerboel. So many people tell you, :go look at old photo's and videos of Ysterberg dogs, they were piebald and irishmarked and were so and so big". Yes, they were, but they were not Boerboels, they were Ysterberg Mastiffs as has now been admitted. The Ysterberg Mastiff people say that their Ysterberg Mastiffs were a pure line, with no health problems and no temperament problems until they started breeding them with Boerboels, so then the Ysterberg Mastiff and the Boerboel must be two seperate breeds.
Other Boerboels that have a bit of Ysterberg lines in them, but not predominantly Ysterberg, are also registered as Boerboels, and I presume that they will still remain under the Boerboel name.
Retha

[jim l.]

Retha, thank you for explaining, I was a bit confused.

[Kobus en Corrie Nieuwoudt]

I am not going to get into an argument or long discussion here about this issue. If anybody wants to find out more about our plans you are welcome to go to the following updated link: http://www.ysterbergmastiff.com/apps/faq/
As for the name, Ysterberg Mastiff is a name that was decided upon last year. We decided on this name to clearly distinguish between Boerboels and our new project. It is important to clearly distinguish between dogs that have been crossed out to other breeds and registered Ysterberg Boerboels.
So, yes before the 1980’s the Ysterberg dogs were not Boerboels but then …there were NO Boerboels at that stage. There is as far as I know no records of dogs named Boerboels before this time. If there is please let me have it since it is very important to know the history of the dogs that you breed with. All dogs were known as Boelle or Boel honde or Plaas honde (at least the ones that was known to me). The first one known to me was a brindle named Boellie that we received as a gift from my grandfather in the late sixties. He had two more on the farm in the seventies named Boel and Jakkals. Boel was big and lazy and only bothered to get up when a stranger approached the farm house. Jakkals on the other hand was very athletic and energetic. He was given away because he caught the chickens and couldn’t leave the cattle alone. We owned another one in the seventies named Geena. She was mated to a Bullmastiff male of friends. A Brindle male from there were given to my grandfather. All of these dogs were known as Boelle. We must remember that those very first Boerboels of the 1980’s were all mixed breeds that became pure breeds overnight (dogs like Mizpah Plestiek, Mizpah Flenters, Volksrust Leeuw, Lady Lady Ficksburg etc.) By the way your dogs also have some small percentage Ysterberg in them from way back (Ysterberg Vaaltyn). We can trace his history back to 1948 when Klaas van Waveren first put pen to paper. He and Lucas van der Merwe also exchanged some dogs before the start of the organizations.
The original idea was to sell all the Boerboels that will not form part of our new project and just continue with the Ysterberg Mastiffs. We have however had a lot of requests from some of the older breeders as well as international breeders not to completely stop with the Ysterberg line. Therefore we will still continue to breed the Ysterberg Boerboels as well.

[Paul Dang]

well, i'm not trading my Boerboel model in for the next 15 years (fingers crossed) so I really don't care :)  but it is interesting and i am glad people keep such good track of bloodlines and historical data...bottom line is whether your Ysterbeg came from Boerboel blood or was part of the original stock that made up today's Boerboel....if its anything like a Boerboel then I am sure it will be an excellent breed of dog. Good luck on your project.

[Retha]

Thanks for explaining Kobus. I am however still a bit confused. So there is going to be Ysterberg Mastiffs, a completely seperate breed from the Boerboel, and there is going to be Boerboels bred from Ysterberg lines?? But how can you breed Boerboels from Ysterberg lines, if Ysterberg dogs are a different breed? I understand that way back then Ysterberg dogs were registered as Boerboels, cos there was nothing else one could registered them as, but now that the Ysternerg dogs have com to their own and is their own unique different breed than the Boerboel, why would you still want to crossbreed the two breeds? Please explain.
I am glad that you state that some of the first original Boerboels were brindle in colour, as the ones that I know of were also brindle in colour - back in the late '50s early '60s.