Boerboel Diet

[Marco]

Boerboel diet seems to be an ongoing discussion here, with good reason.  Most everyone feels that it is very important to properly feed, and care for your boerboel.  We show this by the type of food they eat, supplements they take, proper amount of food given, and exercise.  I'd like to make this post a dedicated topic for this type of discussion.  It does not matter if you feed raw, kibble, or table scraps everyone is welcome to join in, and give their thoughts.  What does matter is that we are always sharing, learning, and helping one another, to take better care of our boerboels.  If you don't find what you are looking for in this discussion, keep in mind we already have plenty of other places here to look.  I will list some of those places below which I think will be of great help to you.  Some example of these are the Raw Feeding Group, Diet Info Page, and the section in our forum Boerboel Diet.  You can also create your own group, page, and post if you choose.  I hope you will join us in this discussion.

 

Raw Feeding Group

Diet Info Page

Forum Boerboel Diet

[Jay Cohen]

Marco, I keep going back and forth on this issue- I watched the video....I'm wary of anyone connected to Joe Mercola, a charlatan of the highest order, perhaps the greatest snake oil salesman the world has ever seen.  I bet if you visit their site they will be selling digestive enzymes and pro-biotics.  In her presentation she talks about their ability to digest these foods, due to their very powerful stomach acid and digestive enzymes...then she recommends supplementing their diet with pro-biotics and digestive enzymes!  I did appreciate seeing it though and learned something- it seems from her video that freezing the raw food for a minimum of 3-days kills certain parasites.  I didn't know that and I, when I fed raw up to 3 weeks ago was giving Nike raw organic hamburger meat from Costco which is not frozen. In fact I gave her a pound and a quarter tonight after she ate very little of the dry food I feed her.  I assume you feed raw.  Can you give me a rundown of what you do?

Thank you.

J

[Sweet Pea]

Jay, just to chime in here...I know what you mean about snake oil salesman. I really like Dr. Becker and have attended a few webinars on over-vaccination, so I was disappointed to see she was hooked up with Mercola. That said, I take advice lightly from one who is profiting on a product. I really feel that digestive enzymes and probiotics are very good for dogs who need them. Dogs with health issues or have been on antibiotics, or that have been fed kibble for a long time and are making a switch to raw can really benefit from these products and I've seen them first hand with my dogs. Gut health is very important--70% of the immune response comes from the gut. 

I'm just going to throw in my opinions here on raw. It's not gospel, just my beliefs and how I feed my dogs. It took me a while to switch my dogs to raw. They were eating high quality kibble (Orijen). I toyed around with the idea and even fed them raw intermittently. After tons of research on pet food and pet food companies, I wasn't comfortable feeding any other brands other than Orijen, and I wasn't convinced that even that was the best thing for my dogs. I think about it this way...why would I want to feed my beloved pets food that comes from who knows where, that's been cooked to the point where its completely denatured that they have to add synthetic vitamins. It's like eating Beefaroni in a can for the rest of your life. I much prefer fresh whole foods as nature intended. Now, can dogs survive on kibble? Of course, but are they going to thrive on it? Initially they may do fine, but I believe a lot of health issues eventually arise because of poor nutrition. 

I read in your other post about your concern for Nike spreading germs from her mouth to your family. You really need to be concerned about kibble doing the same. Kibble needs to be handled just as you would raw food and children should be kept away from it and food bowls. There have been so many recalls due to salmonella contamination of kibble. The most recent issue has been with the manufacturer Diamond. The recalls started because many humans got sick from it. People become complacent and just assume it's safe, and don't handle it the way they would handle raw meat. A good website to check out and read through is truthaboutpetfood.com. They have a great newsletter you can subscribe to and they review pet foods. They are more in depth because they tell you where the food is manufactured and where ingredients are sourced. You wouldn't believe how many come from China or are untraceable. 

I feed my dogs prey model raw which is designed to be similar to what they would consume in the wild. They get 80% muscle meat, 10% (sometimes a bit more) of bone, 10% organs (5% must be liver).  I live in Connecticut and I am able to get meat from woman who works with area farms and food distributers. I pay an average of $1.25/lb for all my food. My dogs get lamb, beef, pork, duck, turkey, chicken, hearts and organs from all of the above animals and even salmon scraps when available. During hunting season I was able to find someone who knows a deer processor and got tons of venison scraps for $0.25/lb!! My meat is generally frozen as with two Boerboels, that is the only way to keep it in supply. From what I've read, it is not necessary to freeze meat unless it comes from wild pigs. 

I don't know what state you are in, but there's plenty of ways to get cheap meat. Tell friends and relatives not to throw away old or freezer burnt meats--you can take them off their hands as long as they are unseasoned and not enhanced with sodium. If you have local ethnic markets, talk to the owner/manager and see if you can buy the meats that are past the due date. I know someone who pays $0.50/lb for meat like this and they save her big bags of stuff. Call area deer processors and offer to take the scraps off their hands. You can also do the same with area slaughterhouses and farms. 

There are some great Yahoo groups on feeding raw and on CarnivoreFeed-Supplier (Yahoo Groups), you can find offerings and distributers in your area. This is a great site too: http://rawfed.com/myths/  If you scroll down and click on the "myths" you'll see that there are some topics that might interest you like bacteria, parasites and health risks for humans. 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Ken_C]

Jay & Marco, my 2 cents on the diet, (for what it's worth)  I feed ABADY raw in the moning & "Earthborn Holistic" kibble in the evening.  I noticed when I first started, my ridgeback, lost 5lbs in a week.  His coat was incredibly soft and his teeth were whiter than they were since he was a pup. I did not have any health issues at all.  Gemma has eaten raw since I got her @ 9weeks old.  It seems to have very positive results.  My vet says she is very healthy and has no concerns with it.  He actually feeds all his dogs & cats ABADY RAW as well.

[Jay Cohen]

Thank you Ken, I'm going to look into Abady- he's the guy that used to put full page text ads all over the place right?

[Ken_C]

Jay, Not sure about the ads, but I know the company is out of upstate NY.  If you contact them directly they give u a break if u order $300.00 worth at a time & they deliver it to your door.  I think I pay $92.00 for a case of 12- 3lbs. logs.  It is kinda nasty, my wife won't have anything to do with it (LOL)  As long as I do not have any negative experiences with it, it I'll continue to use it.

[Jay Cohen]

Kimberly, I appreciate all of the information- I have been feeding raw again for two days- still confused.  I did go on one of the websites that dealt with the "Myth" of people getting sick from their raw fed dogs- my main area of concern.  I still don't understand why cooking the meat as I was doing for a few months creates a problem.  I have been buying organic chopped meat at Costco- still its $4.50/lb. The are now packaged in 1.25 pound containers and I gave her one last night after she ate very little kibble, and a pound and a quarter this morning.  Ken_C recommends Abady, which I plan to look into.  I live in Searingtown, NY close by exit 36 on the LIE.  We eat organic- we think it is better and I would naturally want Nike to as well.  If you read my earlier post I'm using Orijin, Castor & Pollux Organix & Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon formula- she doesn't love it.  There is a holistic vet that I think very highly of named Marty Goldstein who got me started feeding raw about 12-years ago.  He still believes in doing so.  I get meat from Martins K9 formula, Marty Lieberman in Sea Cliff- he sells 40 pounds of mixed frozen meat for $60.  I was worried about the quality- not knowing there is anything wrong with it- but we eat organic because we believe it is healthier- why shouldn't Nike.  But she can eat 2-4 pounds in a day at $6.00+ that is out of hand particularly when I can get human grade organic meat from Costco for $4.50/Lb.

Kimberly Baker said:

Jay, just to chime in here...I know what you mean about snake oil salesman. I really like Dr. Becker and have attended a few webinars on over-vaccination, so I was disappointed to see she was hooked up with Mercola. That said, I take advice lightly from one who is profiting on a product. I really feel that digestive enzymes and probiotics are very good for dogs who need them. Dogs with health issues or have been on antibiotics, or that have been fed kibble for a long time and are making a switch to raw can really benefit from these products and I've seen them first hand with my dogs. Gut health is very important--70% of the immune response comes from the gut. 

I'm just going to throw in my opinions here on raw. It's not gospel, just my beliefs and how I feed my dogs. It took me a while to switch my dogs to raw. They were eating high quality kibble (Orijen). I toyed around with the idea and even fed them raw intermittently. After tons of research on pet food and pet food companies, I wasn't comfortable feeding any other brands other than Orijen, and I wasn't convinced that even that was the best thing for my dogs. I think about it this way...why would I want to feed my beloved pets food that comes from who knows where, that's been cooked to the point where its completely denatured that they have to add synthetic vitamins. It's like eating Beefaroni in a can for the rest of your life. I much prefer fresh whole foods as nature intended. Now, can dogs survive on kibble? Of course, but are they going to thrive on it? Initially they may do fine, but I believe a lot of health issues eventually arise because of poor nutrition. 

I read in your other post about your concern for Nike spreading germs from her mouth to your family. You really need to be concerned about kibble doing the same. Kibble needs to be handled just as you would raw food and children should be kept away from it and food bowls. There have been so many recalls due to salmonella contamination of kibble. The most recent issue has been with the manufacturer Diamond. The recalls started because many humans got sick from it. People become complacent and just assume it's safe, and don't handle it the way they would handle raw meat. A good website to check out and read through is truthaboutpetfood.com. They have a great newsletter you can subscribe to and they review pet foods. They are more in depth because they tell you where the food is manufactured and where ingredients are sourced. You wouldn't believe how many come from China or are untraceable. 

I feed my dogs prey model raw which is designed to be similar to what they would consume in the wild. They get 80% muscle meat, 10% (sometimes a bit more) of bone, 10% organs (5% must be liver).  I live in Connecticut and I am able to get meat from woman who works with area farms and food distributers. I pay an average of $1.25/lb for all my food. My dogs get lamb, beef, pork, duck, turkey, chicken, hearts and organs from all of the above animals and even salmon scraps when available. During hunting season I was able to find someone who knows a deer processor and got tons of venison scraps for $0.25/lb!! My meat is generally frozen as with two Boerboels, that is the only way to keep it in supply. From what I've read, it is not necessary to freeze meat unless it comes from wild pigs. 

I don't know what state you are in, but there's plenty of ways to get cheap meat. Tell friends and relatives not to throw away old or freezer burnt meats--you can take them off their hands as long as they are unseasoned and not enhanced with sodium. If you have local ethnic markets, talk to the owner/manager and see if you can buy the meats that are past the due date. I know someone who pays $0.50/lb for meat like this and they save her big bags of stuff. Call area deer processors and offer to take the scraps off their hands. You can also do the same with area slaughterhouses and farms. 

There are some great Yahoo groups on feeding raw and on CarnivoreFeed-Supplier (Yahoo Groups), you can find offerings and distributers in your area. This is a great site too: http://rawfed.com/myths/  If you scroll down and click on the "myths" you'll see that there are some topics that might interest you like bacteria, parasites and health risks for humans. 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Sweet Pea]

How far are you from Huntington Station? Armellino's K9 sells ground mixes of food. When we are in Long Island I always stop there and stock up on lamb, as it's the cheapest I can get it and I like to add it for variety. A case of lamb ends up costing me $1.40/lb. I can't afford to feed organic, however, the woman I buy the bulk of my meat from gets it from area farms which many of them chose natural options and have pastured animals. Definitely better than feed lot beef! 

More important than the quality, is balancing their diet and making sure they have all the nutrients. Quality meat is not all that useful if they aren't getting all the nutrients they need. Also, if you are concerned about quality, I would ditch the Blue Buffalo. As for cooking...when you cook for her, she is not getting bone and all the calcium and other minerals that come with it. Cooked beef and sweet potato is really not complete nutrition. It's ok once in a while though, as long as you balance over time. Also, cooking meat destroys many of the amino acids. Home cooking is an option for her too, but it's more difficult to make sure they are getting all their nutrients. There's a great book called "Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs" by Lew Olson, PhD. It gives you a guide to feed raw properly so that your dog is getting everything they need and also has properly balanced, cooked meal recipes. It even gives you plenty of ideas to spruce up their kibble into something healthier if you choose to continue to feed kibble. 

Jay Cohen said:

Kimberly, I appreciate all of the information- I have been feeding raw again for two days- still confused.  I did go on one of the websites that dealt with the "Myth" of people getting sick from their raw fed dogs- my main area of concern.  I still don't understand why cooking the meat as I was doing for a few months creates a problem.  I have been buying organic chopped meat at Costco- still its $4.50/lb. The are now packaged in 1.25 pound containers and I gave her one last night after she ate very little kibble, and a pound and a quarter this morning.  Ken_C recommends Abady, which I plan to look into.  I live in Searingtown, NY close by exit 36 on the LIE.  We eat organic- we think it is better and I would naturally want Nike to as well.  If you read my earlier post I'm using Orijin, Castor & Pollux Organix & Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon formula- she doesn't love it.  There is a holistic vet that I think very highly of named Marty Goldstein who got me started feeding raw about 12-years ago.  He still believes in doing so.  I get meat from Martins K9 formula, Marty Lieberman in Sea Cliff- he sells 40 pounds of mixed frozen meat for $60.  I was worried about the quality- not knowing there is anything wrong with it- but we eat organic because we believe it is healthier- why shouldn't Nike.  But she can eat 2-4 pounds in a day at $6.00+ that is out of hand particularly when I can get human grade organic meat from Costco for $4.50/Lb.

[Jay Cohen]

Huntington Station is 17 miles from where I live.  I'm looking at their website and they give you case prices but don't advise how much is in a case- do you know?

J

Kimberly Baker said:

How far are you from Huntington Station? Armellino's K9 sells ground mixes of food. When we are in Long Island I always stop there and stock up on lamb, as it's the cheapest I can get it and I like to add it for variety. A case of lamb ends up costing me $1.40/lb. I can't afford to feed organic, however, the woman I buy the bulk of my meat from gets it from area farms which many of them chose natural options and have pastured animals. Definitely better than feed lot beef! 

More important than the quality, is balancing their diet and making sure they have all the nutrients. Quality meat is not all that useful if they aren't getting all the nutrients they need. Also, if you are concerned about quality, I would ditch the Blue Buffalo. As for cooking...when you cook for her, she is not getting bone and all the calcium and other minerals that come with it. Cooked beef and sweet potato is really not complete nutrition. It's ok once in a while though, as long as you balance over time. Also, cooking meat destroys many of the amino acids. Home cooking is an option for her too, but it's more difficult to make sure they are getting all their nutrients. There's a great book called "Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs" by Lew Olson, PhD. It gives you a guide to feed raw properly so that your dog is getting everything they need and also has properly balanced, cooked meal recipes. It even gives you plenty of ideas to spruce up their kibble into something healthier if you choose to continue to feed kibble. 

Jay Cohen said:

Kimberly, I appreciate all of the information- I have been feeding raw again for two days- still confused.  I did go on one of the websites that dealt with the "Myth" of people getting sick from their raw fed dogs- my main area of concern.  I still don't understand why cooking the meat as I was doing for a few months creates a problem.  I have been buying organic chopped meat at Costco- still its $4.50/lb. The are now packaged in 1.25 pound containers and I gave her one last night after she ate very little kibble, and a pound and a quarter this morning.  Ken_C recommends Abady, which I plan to look into.  I live in Searingtown, NY close by exit 36 on the LIE.  We eat organic- we think it is better and I would naturally want Nike to as well.  If you read my earlier post I'm using Orijin, Castor & Pollux Organix & Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon formula- she doesn't love it.  There is a holistic vet that I think very highly of named Marty Goldstein who got me started feeding raw about 12-years ago.  He still believes in doing so.  I get meat from Martins K9 formula, Marty Lieberman in Sea Cliff- he sells 40 pounds of mixed frozen meat for $60.  I was worried about the quality- not knowing there is anything wrong with it- but we eat organic because we believe it is healthier- why shouldn't Nike.  But she can eat 2-4 pounds in a day at $6.00+ that is out of hand particularly when I can get human grade organic meat from Costco for $4.50/Lb.

[Sweet Pea]

It's 50 lbs per case

Jay Cohen said:

Huntington Station is 17 miles from where I live.  I'm looking at their website and they give you case prices but don't advise how much is in a case- do you know?

J

[Jay Cohen]

Thanks, Kimberly.  Do you consider this a complete and balanced diet by itself?  Or are suppliments required?

J

[Marco]

Jay sorry it has taken me awhile to reply.  This is my fourth attempt in doing so.  I've been having iPad, and computer issues.  This reply will be a lot shorter than it originally was because of it.  :)  Glad to see others taking part in the post, thank you all.  I honestly don't know anything about Joe, however I really like Karen Becker.  Her posts, and videos are very informative, and have been helping a lot of people.  I hope she continues doing what she does.  I do feed raw but wasn't till the great people here on this site gave me the push I needed.  Before that I was always searching for the best kibble possible but it was only a substitute for the real thing.  Dogs are carnivores by design but can adapt.  Once I made the switch I noticed a big difference.  I now buy everything I can in bulk each month, then take home and separate each serving in freezer bags. Its a lot cheaper than the kibble I was buying, and much better for my dogs.  Im going to leave you with some links to look at but I think Kim may have beat me to it.

 

Myth: RAW-FED ANIMALS POSE A SIGNIFICANT HEALTH RISK TO HUMANS

Dogs Are Carnivores

Myth: DOGS ARE OMNIVORES

 

Great Guides to feeding raw

Raw Feeding Guide 1

Raw Feeding Guide 2

All this stuff and more can be found at our Diet Page

[Marco]

For those who feed kibble please do not feel I am against what you do.  Its a learning process, and we do what we can.  I do hope though that you always do your research on the food you buy, and feed your pets.  Please be aware of kibble recalls for the safety of you, and your loved ones.  The link, and videos below will help you feed the best food possible.

 

Dog Food Recalls

The Best and Worst Foods for Your Pet

The Quality of Pet Food Ingredients