Black dog - open letter

[Dries Lloyd]

There were NO black Boerboels in the original foundation stock. FULL STOP!!!! If there were - proof of this would have been forthcoming a long, long time ago. Yes, I believe there were black farm dogs at the time the foundation dogs were selected, but they did not form part of the original foundation stock. yes, and I believe some survived over the decades, but with what were they mated with??

I really do feel sorry for the people who have bought black dogs, but the argument that the parentage of current black dogs can be proven with DNA tests - is not only an insult to the original founding members of our wonderful Boerboel breed, but a slap in the face of everyone here who wants to do the "right" thing for the Boerboel. The fact remains that if indeed they are not original - they are not original/pedigree!!! People pay top dollar for a PEDIGREE dogs. If they wanted something else (a dog) they could have just bought a farm dog (crossbreed) off any farm (at a fraction of the price). Now, to add insult to injury these black dogs suddenly demand excessive prices?????? I, believe the onus is on the powers that be to proof the validity of theses black dogs. If they can - I would be the first one to aqcuire one. The fact remains - this discussion or issue has been around for years, and no proof has been forthcoming. This plainly illustrates that indeed there is no proof.

The question must also be asked why if it was believed that the black dog should be brought into the Boerboel gene pool - why was common practise not followed? Why were members not consulted by means of a study and recommendation from the powers that that they thought these black dogs would contribute to the breed. Nope, suddenly they pop out after decades of non-existence!! Other breed organisations do this. They would do a proper study, select say a control group of specimens and RECOMMEND to their members that these animals would be included in a seperate register with trial matings and control groups. This takes years and all above board and completely transparent.

Just playing devil's advocate here - If I was a breeder of the black dog, and I knew there were question marks around their validity - I would have done the necessary testing "then", and together with written original documents splashed all over the world. I would shout it out loud from my roof!! The Boerboel gene pool and pedigree administration thereof should be ROCK SOLID!!! No questions should be asked about it's validity!!!!! This is basic stuff people!!! There are so much more important issues to deal with i.e. health & temperament testing etc. We're wasting time, and the clock is ticking. Look at the current state of our stock. I plead to all relevant parties - do right by the Boerboel, and if you have done wrong - stand up and be accountable so we can move on. You owe it to the Boerboel and us!! Think of what legacy you would want to leave behind. Do you want to remembered as the one who helped save the Boerboel or the one who introduced unknown traits and characteristics into the gene pool? It's like buying an original "genuine" BMW and then only realise later on that indeed it is not genuine, AND to add insult to injury again, realising that you paid double the going rate. I can tell you this BMW will not honour your guarantee!!! Owners, do your homework! Breeders, do the RIGHT THING please! I'll state again - if undesputable proof is handed to me that indeed these black dogs are Boerboels - I'll be the first one to buy one!! Until then - you would not see a black dog on my yard. Yes, they are beautiful animals, but I love my pedigree Boerboel too much!!

[Nilda Brumley]

Ya know. I had alot to say a moment ago...but, that was a reactionary response. When i paused to think harder on this subject, this is what came to me. Color wars have been around for decades...&, I'm talking people, not dogs...but same principal applies. White supremist claim to be of a pure race...history shows us that, this cannot be. Slave masters slept with their slaves &, fathered children. Those begat their own etc. You get the idea. I find it hard to believe that the BB just came into existence as itself. People back in 15,16,1800's weren't so much preoccupied with a paper showing a dogs breeding. Their primary concern was the dogs usefulness. Guarding livestock, the home, using them to hunt or on battlefield . Pedigree came about much like everything else, the minds of a few visionaries. So began the selection process of pairing what-ever dogs they had at that time, to get the dog we know as todays BB. Sorry if i strayed off the mark guys.

[Roland L]

The bb or more generally the 'african type mastiff' has been evolving since the first mastiffs appeared on the continent. Possibly will continue to do so based on evolving needs. The African type mastiff evolved then for a certain form and function.  At some point then someone drew a line in the sand as well that said that this was now not an English Mastiff(for example) but something else all together and should not be called such.

I am neither for or against the black 'boerboel' but I feel for those who are compelled to draw a line in the sand now and say the evolution of the boerboel stops here and anything after it is excluded from the definition.  To be honest I am conflicted because I have owned a really great black dog.

I choose a dog be it a boerboel, ysterberg or any other breed because of certain hard wired physical and temperamental attributes. Color is only important for me after I have determined if the breed in general has a consistent form, function and temperament.  Because if a breed standard is set, the chances of getting what I am looking for is much better. If you take color out of the definition of the boerboel, maybe people will breed for those attributes that are truly much more important because I think that poor form, function and temperament is not limited to unaccepted colors.  If the black color is disallowed, I hope that the black 'african mastiff' should still continue to be bred and allowed to evolve. With the original emphasis on form, temperament and function. Perhaps just under a different name.  This way I still have a choice when deciding on the correct dog for me.

Here ends my Sunday morning rambling and I apologize if I have offended anyone.  :)

[Lee May]

Very well said Nilda. I come from American Indian farmers we bred dogs and did not care about color but what the dogs could do, simple as that. This color war is stupid and childish, and is destroying the breed Orgs. and people. Very sad times. Truth be told I will always call my black dogs BB's because that's what they are, why should I dishonor what is in them by calling them something else. I will never do that.

Nilda Brumley said:

Ya know. I had alot to say a moment ago...but, that was a reactionary response. When i paused to think harder on this subject, this is what came to me. Color wars have been around for decades...&, I'm talking people, not dogs...but same principal applies. White supremist claim to be of a pure race...history shows us that, this cannot be. Slave masters slept with their slaves &, fathered children. Those begat their own etc. You get the idea. I find it hard to believe that the BB just came into existence as itself. People back in 15,16,1800's weren't so much preoccupied with a paper showing a dogs breeding. Their primary concern was the dogs usefulness. Guarding livestock, the home, using them to hunt or on battlefield . Pedigree came about much like everything else, the minds of a few visionaries. So began the selection process of pairing what-ever dogs they had at that time, to get the dog we know as todays BB. Sorry if i strayed off the mark guys.

[Lee May]

Nice post Dawie! Thank you for it! Peace Lee

[Dries Lloyd]

I wanted to say something that has been said before but that nobody seems to be hearing, especially the black dog and weird colour lobby. Just because something is genetically possible,does not mean that it is acceptable under the Breed Standard.. The breed standard clearly sets out the acceptable colours in the Boerboel.THE BREED STANDARD SETS OUT WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE. All these genetic discussions are irrelevant. If it is not acceptable under the Breed Standard, It is irrelevant how it occurred. All of these discussions are obsessively focused on colour, the least important aspect of a boerboel but the most important to the black dog lobby. We focused on the black colour originally , ONLY because we were convinced that they were the result of crossbreeding. We wanted to prevent the pollution and corruption of the breed which may have brought along with it, unknown undesirable changes to the breed, such as changes to the temperament of the Boerboel.

The idea proposed by Ali and convenient to his friends in the SABT/SABBS who would like to use it to suit their own shameful objectives that everything that is genetically possible should be included and that everything goes is much beloved of people who do not like or do not understand dog breeding. Taken to its conclusion, it means that there would be no dog breeds just a collection of mutts and NO Real BOERBOEL.

What is genetically possible is not necessarily acceptable. What is acceptable is set out in the standard.

[Dries Lloyd]

This is not a popularity contest Dawie. If you would like to go and "play" around with a breed - please feel free to go and do it it elsewhere. It just seems that you do not like the current Boerboel as you keep wanting to change the breed standard all the time. Change it for commercial and popularity reasons. Not on my watch, I'm sorry!

[BBoel]

To All;
I tried to stay away from all this nonce except few posts at the begging.
But lately it started bothering me quite a lot.

Instead of discussing productive or counterproductive breeding technique, dog training or feeding, Boerboel community busy with pointless discussion about colors.

From my personal point of view it's waste of people time and just screwing with new members/dog owners heads.
Let state the facts, in mid 80 of the last century group of people who were well educated about African dogs (breed name South African Boerboel) came up with basic document called breed standard. For some reason that document did not include black dogs as well some other colored dogs as a standard dogs. We may or may not like that fact, but they (founding members) established the standard. If any of us do not like THE STANDARD it does not change the fact any dogs that are not meet requirements of that document must be considered as NOT a Boerboel.

Participation in any club(s) is not mandatory. Anyone can join one or all existing clubs or even establish one for them self. 

However no one can call dog The South African Boerboel if the dog is not meet existing standard. 
Te person and/or group of people can named other dogs anyway they want; Black African Mastiff or Blue Farmer's Mastif of Africa or Great Boel of Boers, but not a South African Boerboel, otherwise it's a violation and inappropriate name usage. If we would have South African Boerboel as a trade mark, such violation would be punishable by law. 

I hope one day all participants in the administration of the different clubs in Africa will put aside their differences and will create a single organization. I hope that organization will preserve existing standard and will establish strict rules and hopefully create a trade mark for the breed name.

I hope people will stop use other breeds standards in discussions and will stop to apply those standards as an explanation why they believe that is Ok to deviate from the original standard.

The very same person can own and breed South African Boerboels and other breeds. I do not see that as a conflict as long as standards for both breeds respected and followed. But followed separately for each breed. 

I like and respect many people on both sides. I like and respect them for their knowledge and experience as a dog breeders, trainers, handlers.

Please let stay this way. Please stop waisting your energy on counterproductive discusios and lets' go back to the good productive conversations how to keep our Boerboels strong and healthy. Let's put as a goal that the South African Boerboel will be recognized by FCI.
, 

[Ati Piukovic]

Hello Everybody,

I would add just a short comment to this interesting debate. I agree with all of you. I prefer brown, fawn and brindle colour Boerboels and I would give more credit to this colours. I think we have a Boerboel standard and if the black BBs will be equal in quality and meet the standard requirements what can we say.

Pedigree and the origin of the breed is a different matter. Brown & fawn colour with black mask thats how a true Boerboel shoud look like. Black colour dogs are equal in quality? Quality is very complex matter, the Boerboel standard is very objectiv but the interpretation and application of the standard can be very subjective just think of the judges different preferences.Not talking about the preferances of breeders and owners.

The black Boerboels may not be equal in quality with the original colour or it takes many years of selective breeding but I do not think it would have derogated the origin of the breed if we brought the black colour into the BB gene pool. Matter of fact we have already done it. With selective breeding a good breeder can breed a black dog which gene pool almost identical to the original/pedigree BB. What is the origin of the breed? Is the history of BB authentic? 30 years is not to much.

If more black Boerboels come close to meeting the requirements of the present day standard and the expectation of the breeders why not? If the black BB will be comparable to the more popular colours in quality why not? Our world is all about competition & new things what we have to adopt. Accuracy & credibility of the pedigree is a different matter.

Narrow down the gene pool of any breed is not a wise idea. So give room to the new colour but do not forget what we like in our breed & what makes a Boerboel so unique.

Ati

[Lee May]

Hi Leon, and all. Well most of you know where I stand, and I try not to muddy the waters of this fine site. So Apologies Marco you can delete my post if you choose no bad feelings. First off SABT is the mother Org. so with out using their pedigree none would have it. Secondly EVERY Org. has a provision stated in their bylaws to add at any time they so deem to add new blood or even cross breed if necessary to try to get back the traits they have breeded away from for decades, Dalmations, GSD just off the top of my head. The SABT back in 1997 admitted their was a mistake in ommiting the black BB's for fear of being crossed. with other breeds. Which means they were indeed their and known. The real problem is fear and cheating, but if you research the truth you will find far more brown dogs have been pet shop dogs or worse but still allowed in this breed. Now if ebbasa and BI and Kusa would delete this clause I would have a ounce of respect for them but they don't they are going after a color, like these are show dogs, well they aren't! and on top of that they are not for everyone and I fear the day the AKC really exposes them to the world. FCI as well. No farmer would care what color their dog was as long as they did their Job! simple as that. My black dog comes from a family that Ebbasa and SABT Both celebrated as great breeders, so don't believe all the negative hype. Their is a reason the founding fathers/mothers mentioned black skin, nails etc. The same Org. also realized their mistake back in 1997 and in 2003-4 allowed black dogs in. Why because they realized they were breeding away from what was needed in the BB. Now we can go back and forth about about who saw what and when. The lies and double speak, but only the black color carries the most Beta Defensin needed in our breed so breed away fron that and we will have major problem down the road. For those interested research it your self, as I'm not here to taint your prospective in any way. Those who know me know I have red and fawn BB all pure bred. Leon if you like you can pm me anytime. Also this has been going on way to long $ yrs now and that is crazy.  Ok I hope I'am done with this on Top BB. Do how you wish and I will do the same. Peace! and don't forget your training, most important, this breed is not for everyone.

[BBoel]

Lee.
I know your position on the subject.
I did not try to determine who is right and who is wrong. I simply tired of all this.
We use to have good productive discussions and shared our experiences.
Unfortunately not anymore.
I don't think it's productive to argue all the time.
So far, I did not see any posts were people agreed to change their position.
Let agree to disagree and stop it.
As I mentioned in the first post participation in the club is not mandatory. People join and leave clubs constantly.
Do you really need somebody's permission to do what you think is right?
I joined SABT and alter EBBASA for the simple reason I believe that the appraisers know more than me about the breed.
Any competition judged by people will carry some elements of subjectivity - our human's nature. So we have one organization that allowed some things that not allowed in others. Anyone can join one they like and not join the others.
People get tired of all politic, i.e. - https://www.facebook.com/vlada.milanovic.14/posts/4785164866865
We will lose good people and good dogs if we continue fighting.

IMHO, I do not agree with positive influence of changes of the standards. Look at the mastiffs - Neo, French, etc. Breeds changes so much from the original stock. I am not sure that the dogs they present today, and they use to have are the same breeds.
Same with Rottweilers, Shepherd and Dobermans in US.
They are different (drastically) from the dogs of the same breeds in Europe.
I prefer to stick with the standard that proofed to keep the breed from the changes than otherwise. However, it's my personal position. People may or may not agree with me.
As long as I am not forced to change my position, I am ok.
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Trust I seek and I find in you 
Every day for us something new 
Open mind for a different view 
and nothing else matters

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[Jens Gunther]

It saddens me to see this type of provocation and subsequent circular debate rearing its ugly head here, sowing dissent and division. Many of the previously useful and constructive Boerboel sites have been rendered intolerable by this kind of contamination. It would be a really be a shame if if happened here as well.

The dog is much, much older, and much more important, than this miserable mud slinging exercise.