Black dog - open letter

[Dries Lloyd]

There were NO black Boerboels in the original foundation stock. FULL STOP!!!! If there were - proof of this would have been forthcoming a long, long time ago. Yes, I believe there were black farm dogs at the time the foundation dogs were selected, but they did not form part of the original foundation stock. yes, and I believe some survived over the decades, but with what were they mated with??

I really do feel sorry for the people who have bought black dogs, but the argument that the parentage of current black dogs can be proven with DNA tests - is not only an insult to the original founding members of our wonderful Boerboel breed, but a slap in the face of everyone here who wants to do the "right" thing for the Boerboel. The fact remains that if indeed they are not original - they are not original/pedigree!!! People pay top dollar for a PEDIGREE dogs. If they wanted something else (a dog) they could have just bought a farm dog (crossbreed) off any farm (at a fraction of the price). Now, to add insult to injury these black dogs suddenly demand excessive prices?????? I, believe the onus is on the powers that be to proof the validity of theses black dogs. If they can - I would be the first one to aqcuire one. The fact remains - this discussion or issue has been around for years, and no proof has been forthcoming. This plainly illustrates that indeed there is no proof.

The question must also be asked why if it was believed that the black dog should be brought into the Boerboel gene pool - why was common practise not followed? Why were members not consulted by means of a study and recommendation from the powers that that they thought these black dogs would contribute to the breed. Nope, suddenly they pop out after decades of non-existence!! Other breed organisations do this. They would do a proper study, select say a control group of specimens and RECOMMEND to their members that these animals would be included in a seperate register with trial matings and control groups. This takes years and all above board and completely transparent.

Just playing devil's advocate here - If I was a breeder of the black dog, and I knew there were question marks around their validity - I would have done the necessary testing "then", and together with written original documents splashed all over the world. I would shout it out loud from my roof!! The Boerboel gene pool and pedigree administration thereof should be ROCK SOLID!!! No questions should be asked about it's validity!!!!! This is basic stuff people!!! There are so much more important issues to deal with i.e. health & temperament testing etc. We're wasting time, and the clock is ticking. Look at the current state of our stock. I plead to all relevant parties - do right by the Boerboel, and if you have done wrong - stand up and be accountable so we can move on. You owe it to the Boerboel and us!! Think of what legacy you would want to leave behind. Do you want to remembered as the one who helped save the Boerboel or the one who introduced unknown traits and characteristics into the gene pool? It's like buying an original "genuine" BMW and then only realise later on that indeed it is not genuine, AND to add insult to injury again, realising that you paid double the going rate. I can tell you this BMW will not honour your guarantee!!! Owners, do your homework! Breeders, do the RIGHT THING please! I'll state again - if undesputable proof is handed to me that indeed these black dogs are Boerboels - I'll be the first one to buy one!! Until then - you would not see a black dog on my yard. Yes, they are beautiful animals, but I love my pedigree Boerboel too much!!

[Lee May]

Genetic science, post from Older breeders, a letter from the founders stating Black was omitted for personal reasons from founding stock. The actual knowledge that the BB was made up of many breeds, more than half, plus mastiff dogs that are known to produce black and brindle still is not enough for you, I don't know what you want as proof. I'm sure if a picture showed up I'm sure you would doubt that too Dries. FYI the BB is a mutt, just because a group is formed and says it a Breed doesn't make it a pure breed History well past 30 yrs. will do that with proper, & I mean proper pedigree through out the years. Not some hodge podge full of wholes pedigree everyone has today and I mean everyone. No one has a full pedigree full list back to 1983. Now there are cheaters out there this is a true sad fact but they don't just breed with black dogs. Get off the fence my man think!

[Marco]

I appreciate you guys, and I appreciate this site.  Which all have provided so much help to others including myself.  I mean no disrespect in saying what I am about to say.  There are just so many other things here to put your time and passion into than debating about color.  Color will not kill the boerboel, nonfunctional ones will, and the division among the boerboel world.  We need more discussions that will help others more than this type of debate.  Most of us have seen how much drama a post like this can stir up.  It is something that we try and stay away from here.  That may also be why we don't get enough interaction here cause it seems people are more quick to fight or watch one than to help.  I am not saying your fighting or trying to fight but you have seen what posts like this turn into.  Thank you for your passion, and concern for the breed.  Just my thoughs, maybe I am wrong here.

[Lee May]

Marco you know me we have spent many years together on different sites, I do try not to argue and most times only give when I get. I like Dries very much and love his dogs too. I just hate dumb responses and half baked on the fence stuff. Hope you both understand. Being Half black and half American Indian I can relate more than most. Denial and side line talkers make no difference. If you would take the time to call SA, email and do the research you will find your answers plain and simple. Get in where you fit in. Peace

[Marco]

Yes I know you guys are great I just don't want things to get out of hand.  I love you guys in as much of a manly way as possible!! :)

[Dries Lloyd]

Lee,

No need to get personal. I feel as passionate as you. We all have the right to freedom of expression, and I really do not feel like a childish tit-for-tat.

The facts "stating Black was omitted for personal reasons from founding stock". If the black dog was not part of the original founding stock - it cannot be called a Boerboel. FULL STOP!!! What you are saying is that all the work that has been done since 1983 is null and void? What was the purpose then of going through the trouble of selecting the foundation stock? As mentioned earlier - it's a slap in the face of the founding members who started this breed! Who are we to the start "playing around" with the gene pool.

I really do not care about the colour. Personally, I would love the colour black on a Boerboel, but you keep missing the point - there are more important issues at with our current stock, now to introduce other UNKNOWN traits will put us back another decade. Why don't we just add some other traits i.e. long hair (cause I like it). Yep, lets all start "playing around". It's not a toy!!!. If you want a toy - go and buy a farm dog and experiment as much as you like, but a Boerboel you won't call it!! I really don't care if I step on someone's toes here. I care about the Boerboel! Have a look around and see what humans have done to other breeds i.e. English Mastiff, Mastino, German Shepherd etc. If we let this slip, we are condoning human interference in our breed.

I've stated my thoughts on this subject which is quite clear, and if you feel like getting personal - be my guest, but I won't be participating with childish tit-for-tat. State your case and provide evidence thereof. Other than that stay on the subject, and lets have a decent conversation about a topic we both feel strongly about. No need for personal snipes at each other. I respect you as a friend - don't spoil it!

 

Marco,

Thank you for the opportunity. I wish more members would get involved. This issue has been festering for so long. Let's get it out in the open. Say your say!

[Mark Fallis]

Dries,

It sounds like you believe there is a conspiracy regarding the addition of the Black color to the Boerboel Standard. I have only recently bought my Boerboels, but have followed this breed for over 15 years. The black dogs were excluded in 1983 due to prejudice and fears that have since been found to be untrue. The black dogs were rare but still a viable part of the breed. I find it quite refreshing that the powers among the SABT realized that there was an error almost 30 years ago, and did something about it. They have assembled the black dogs used today, the same way they found the 72 to 75 dogs used to start the standards in 1983.

To think that the current population of Boerboels world wide is from some "pure" dog is totaly wrong. Go to the Boerboel pedigree site and you can confirm this in an instant. I found almost every single dog in the regestry to have as many unknown dogs in their make-up, as known dogs. Some of the most famous and prolific Boerboels have unknown history only one generation back.  Boerboels are working, family dogs. They have been bred over 300 years for function and function alone. When I look at the many pictures of this breed, I see a much wider gap in the appearance of a Boerboel than almost any breed in the world. This is because the Europeans brought so many different Mastiff type dogs into Africa. I would think that the Bull Mastiff is most dominant because of the influence of the De Beers. The predecessors to the Neopolitan Mastiff, Great Dane, Dogue De Bordeaux, English Mastiff and Spanish Mastiff all have found their way into the genetics of this wonderful breed. That is why some dogs have thicker skin, more lip and jaw, wider backs, resemble the Ridgeback a bit more, and have such a difference in rear angulation.

You obviously love this breed and I do not mean to insult you or your veiw of the breed. I hope with open discussions like this we can all gain a better understanding of where we are going with the Boerboel.

[Dries Lloyd]

Mark,

 

Thank you for your time in replying.

 

I just don't agree when humans start manipulating a breed, which we all care about, for their own personal agendas.

 

Regards

 

Dries

[BBoel]

People.
As a newbie (I am involved with Boerboels only for 4.5 years and another 0.5 for making the decision, finding right breeder etc. other experiences are not count) I would no argue about what is been manipulated after the breeding stock been chosen or what are results of genetic wonders. Genetics is not a mathematics and 2 + 2 is not always would give 4 in it. But it's not what is my post about.
I believe, If for what ever reason SABBA will ban the black boerboels after it crowned black dog as a champion, means SABBA admitting a mistake. If SABBA admitting the mistake it MUST grand fathered the result - means all dog born or conceived prior to the day of the decision (puppies must be born not later that 65 days after the announcement) and been previously registered (parents registered) with SABBA must be admitted as recognized dogs. In this way current owners of black boerboels will be not punished for SABBA's old mistake.

Regardless what I personally like or dislike I have to obey any organization rules or leave such organization if changes in the rules offending me. 

Dries. I would appreciated if you will communicate my opinion to the board or comity or what ever regulatory body will make the decision..  

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p.s. I will stay with the organization regardless of my personal feelings if the organization will uphold own standards equally for every member regardless of the membership time  - 29 years or 29 days.

[Dries Lloyd]

I will surely convey the message. Getting people to admit their mistakes is one thing - getting an organisation to do so??

[BBoel]

Understand. Came from the country where no one (on the top) want to admit the mistakes made

[Dries Lloyd]

Too much power normally the culprit.

[Lee May]

Allowing black BB dogs in was a correction of a mistake, This has been noted, black Boerboels were around and still are. Now if your talking about cheating/ mixing whatever that is something else. Sorry I tried to leave this post alone but can not.