PennHip Vs. OFA

[Marco]

PennHip Vs. OFA the differences, and which is better?  Do you do both?  Which one do you prefer, and why?  I would like to post as much info here as possible on this subject.  Please as always feel free to share any info you may know or have.  Thanks!

 

Comparing PennHip and OFA

PennHip vs OFA, A Personal Story

 

Will be adding more soon!

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

We started using PennHIP on our dogs 10 years ago and have PennHIP tested about 100 dogs. Initially the results were not very promising, the average DI was 0,68 and about 20% of the Boerboels tested already had signs of DJD. These days (we have 22 dogs), it shows a very big improvement, the average DI (in our dogs) has decreased to 0,41, and there has been no dog with DJD for the last 4 years.

 

I do not know whether I can solely contribute the improvement to sticking to the advice from PennHIP, I rather think that it also is a case of the dog´s diet. The cartilage gets worn in an active dog, and it is important to constantly replace this with things in the diet.

[Bobby Jones]

pinn hip for puppies ofa for adults.... no question about it... while the pinn hip gives you a prediction the ofa tels you better what you currently have... so for adult dogs i prefer the ofa... especially for a potintial breeding dog... for a puppy you definatly want the pinn hip... this gives you what the dog is and a prediction of what it will turn out to be...

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Sorry Bobby, but you are wrong. There is no doubt that PennHIP is the best for adults, you see not only does it tell you what to expect in the future for puppies (as you rightly point out), but it also tells you what you have now AND what to expect in the future with adults. Send any OFA x-ray to more than 5 vets and you will most likely get at least 3 different results. There are lots of scientific articals about the differences and certainty of predictions based on analyzing results from both tests, they can be found at www.pennHIP.org under the heading  scientific research (http://research.vet.upenn.edu/pennhip/ScienceandResearch/Scientific...).

 

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Here is a link from a vet that usually does OFA testing.

http://www.animalinsides.com/learn/general-imaging/272-ofa.html

 

[Bobby Jones]

Shawn... I have never found a vet yet that pics pinn hip over ofa that has done several ofa test... ofa is a new thing and must be done right... however unlike the pinn hip test it is 1000 or more time easier to see with the human eye and it is much more accurate that any pinn hip or xray could ever hope to be... it is a digital enhancment... they give you a cd and if you down load the program or ask the vet you can see the video your self... unlike a pinn hip it tells you if there is any kind of sign of anykind of hipp displasia... pinn hip can not possibly catch all of this since it is in no way near as good as a ofa... at best the pinn hip can show a marginal black spot of which could be or maybe not be a sign of hip displasia... an ofa is an inhanced video just like the scan done now a days by the doctors to get a more exact image of your body including the bones... it is way more accurate and much more detailed... you might look at an ofa before looking for links to suck web sites and get the real facts about it... I will never get a pinn hip for an adult dog when the ofa is offered... for a puppy.... yes but with this a healthy adult is just that.... Healthy...

[Bobby Jones]

http://www.workingdogs.com/ofa_penn.htm 

http://www.camelotshepherds.com/Penn%20Hip%20Vs.%20OFA.htm 

http://clubs.akc.org/brit/VetArticles/PennHipVsOFA.htm 

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_hip_dysplasia.html 

NONE Profit organization http://www.offa.org/ 

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Sorry Bobby, but you are completely mislead, the OFA type test has been used for over 40 years. We ourselves have used it since 1975, I might add with absolutely no improvement in the results gained.

PennHIP was developed because it was felt that OFA is not good enough to predict problems. In fact all it can do it is make it visible what the vet can already hear. PennHIP on the other hand is the most modern generally accepted hip test commercialy available. It can do everything that OFA does, in fact one of the three positions the hip xray is taken in is exactly the same as the OFA position and is used for exactly the same purpose, to find and grade DJD. You see if the PennHIP does find DJD it also gives one out of 5 possible grades depending on the severity of the DJD. On top of that it can also predict whether the dog will develop DJD at a later time.

 

As I mentioned OFA type tests have never improved any hips from our breedings, however when we switched to PennHIP 10 years ago (PennHIP was so new then that there were only 6 Boerboels tested in the whole world, today there are 933 Boerboels tested), the change in the results came rapidly. Our average PennHIP score was 0,68 now it is 0,41 (from a status 2 days ago). The majority of the best results in the world come from our dogs (most of the top 10 scores). Now that is what I call improvement. In fact we even give a 6 year guarantee.

 

Anybody hear can submit the same OFA xray to different vets and WILL get different results, any breeder cannot use that sort of sloppyness for anything else than switching vets until the right vet gives the wanted result. Fine on paper, but completely useless in serious breeding programs.

[Bobby Jones]

The truth is that most breeders like the pinn hip because it aplies numbers to the exray... these numbers give you an idea of how lex the hips are... the accuracy of these numbers are just as controled by the vet taking the exrays... for example the vet has to put a vise on the dog... personaly I do not want this being done to my dogs... With a puppy you need to know if there is a chance (and this is only a guess or prediction) for the puppy to develop hip displasia... this will always be a dipute between breeders... Some breeders are so caught up in this pinn hip score thing they get narrow minded... as for the rest I have found that they prefer both as I have stated or on or the other... The truth is that with puppies the pinn hip has shown to be just a bit more accurate and with adults the OFA has proven to be more accurate... personly I like the idea of a none profit group doing the test... so for me it is both and this is the only way I will be checking my dogs... either way will cut you out of sales... so what... they sell so fast it does not matter... so with this said do your research and deside which is best for you and what you fell comfortable with... You are the only one that truly matters when it comes to being satisfied...

[Bobby Jones]

   yes with the puppies.... however an adult with good hips is just that... it has no more growing to do... so you do not have to worry unless there is some sort of sign of hip displasia... but when the results come back from OFA No sign of any type of hip displasia then you have no worries... For a puppy I do agree it is best to get a pinn hip I just fell better with being able to see the results of an adult for myself... in a way I can understand... and while you tell me this I have had other breeders tell me otherwise... so unless I run into the issues you are stating I am doing the pinn hip for the puppies and the ofa for the adults... and my customers do not have to worry because I back what I say 100% including free shipping of a new puppy if needed... they both have flaws... so why would i set my eyes on just one test ? to me this makes no since... im glad your program has improved with the pinn hip test... but in the 25 years ive been around dogs ive seen just the opposite of what you said happen as well... so i decided long ago i will never use just the one but rather both...

[Bobby Jones]

in fact after purchasing a pup from you i would in fact when it grew up" have the dog given an ofa because the pinn hip does not really tell me if the dog has some kind of sign of hipp displasia... only numbers and a prediction... the prediction coming from someone looking at a bunch of numbers...

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Sorry Bobby, let me correct a couple of more things that you misunderstand. Firstly the numbers are not in any way controlled by the vet taking the x-ray. The x-rays are sent to the University of Pennsylvania and all results come from them.

Secondly I have attended well over 100 PennHIP tests and never seen a vet put a vice on the dog, that is absolutely not a part of any PennHIP.

 

Thirdly there is no proof that OFA is in any way more accurate at predicting DJD than PennHIP, and there is proof that PennHIP is more accurate than OFA at predicting DJD.

 

PennHIP is a non profit organisation.

What you are implying is that if there is no notceable damage when the x-ray is taken then none will occure at a later stage. This is also incorrect, both tests make and evaluation of the hips as they look at the time the pictures are taken. Nobody knows what the future brings, PennHIP let´s the breeder know the likelyhood of something developing later.

 

The real difference between PennHIP and OFA is the same as the difference between someone offering a hungry man a bit of bacon (OFA), and someone offering the same man bacon and eggs (PennHIP). Of course the choice is obvious.

 

Just to clarify the matter, you have not bought a puppy from us.

 

[Bobby Jones]

if the vet is not putting a vise on the hips then the test is done wrong... check the guide lines for pinn hip test.... and your bait to beacon is none relevent as it is a second hand saying... wake up... this is a ongoing agument and im right... your wrong by mer fact... lol